Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 26th, 2009

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

I think giving that information from the very beginning, even before a caregiver comes to Canada, would be a great start to making sure they know they have those rights and that they are protected. The system should also be enabled to reduce wait times so they don't feel they are stuck in a home and can change without risking their permanent residency in the long run.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Prior to an employer getting an LMO or a work permit, are they responsible for having a clear understanding of what the caregiver is responsible for doing in their home?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

It's their responsibility, but it's not always clear and they don't always investigate that.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Who doesn't always investigate that?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

The families don't always necessarily understand their responsibilities under the program.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Good morning, and thank you for coming to the committee.

Let's go back a couple of years. It's my understanding right now--and the record has proven it--that if you apply from the Philippines there is a two-thirds decline versus one-third a couple of years ago. Am I correct on that?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

I've heard that. I don't have access to those statistics, though.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

If you send paperwork in to change employers, to extend your visa, that now takes about six months. A couple of years ago, it took about two months. Am I correct on that?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Again, that's also what I've heard.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

If the caregiver comes from the Philippines straight, then it's okay. But the acceptance rate from the Philippines has gone down to a third, so they go other places to apply. In those other places, there are unscrupulous people who actually ask you for key money in order to bring you in, but in the Philippines you don't have that problem.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Right. I've heard of that—that a lot of caregivers go abroad. I know of women coming from the Philippines who go to northern Europe or Hong Kong or elsewhere, complete the program there—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Hong Kong, Singapore, Dubai, and other places.

What if a caregiver were to come to Canada under the same scheme as an entrepreneur? Businessmen can get a three-year visa as an immigrant, and after the three years they can relieve their conditions. If somebody applies to come as a businessman, he can have an open work permit. He can come to Canada and get OHIP in Ontario. Then in three years he can go to Immigration Canada and say he has a business and wants to become permanent. Would your association be supportive of something similar for the caregivers?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

We'd have to look into it more closely. I don't think we have an official position on that. I can say that it sounds attractive, but I don't know how quickly something like that could be done. I know that waiting times could be addressed more quickly. It's a question of making sure that the resources are there. But as for what we support in the long term, what you suggest might be a very good option.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

They would have an open work permit and would not have to worry about going from employer to employer. An employer could hire them on the spot, and they wouldn't have to get another LMO. That would be more attractive, and I'm happy that Ms. Chow brought it up. She's supporting the motion that she didn't support a couple of months ago. Let's put that on the record.

Let me also ask this question: would you say that the system is broken?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Yes, but—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Would you say that this broken system is putting caregivers, as well as employers—similar to the famous case we're discussing—in a precarious situation?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Absolutely.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

So there's not only Ms. Dhalla, but there are thousands of employers who want to get somebody quickly to look after their families. There are thousands of nannies in this position who can't wait the six months.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Absolutely.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

If a broken system is putting the employers in this situation, then the fault lies squarely on the minister's shoulders, because he hasn't taken steps to fix it.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Well, all families that need help immediately and can't get it are in that position.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

They would go the extra step.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Yes.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

If steps were in put place, then we wouldn't have to go through all this.