Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 26th, 2009

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

I certainly have. There are a lot of cases where that happens. Sometimes the caregivers are okay with that; other times they aren't but they feel pressured into those kinds of situations.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

So do you believe this is a reasonable way to treat a caregiver?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

No, I do not believe it is. I think in terms of the work done, there need to be certain flexibilities. If a caregiver is in a home looking after a child and the child is away for an hour or the child is napping, then there's a break time, but there are families where, certainly, you get caregivers who are working non-stop for that whole period.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, do I have some more time left? I would like to give it to Mr. Shory.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Shory.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Ms. Grewal, and thank you, Mr. Chair, for giving me this opportunity.

I want to get some clarification on two programs, on the entrepreneurial program and this caregiver program. Do you have any knowledge about the entrepreneurial program and how it works?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

My knowledge of that program is fairly limited, beyond understanding that there needs to be a certain net worth of the individual, that they need to invest a certain amount and have a certain amount of background experience, which is somewhat similar to the live-in caregiver program.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

To business.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Yes.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

On the other hand, if I am correct, in the caregiver program, we require an employer to start with it, then we require an LMO, and then the ball rolls. Is that understanding correct?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

That's right.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I have been hearing in this committee that we should come up with similar conditions or a similar program, that the caregivers should also have the conditions the entrepreneurs have. To my understanding, these are two different programs and two different approaches for immigrating. Is that a correct understanding?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

I would say there are similarities, but there are significant differences in terms of the net worth of the individual, in terms of how much money they're bringing with them or investing. None of that applies to a live-in caregiver. They just need to make sure they have the training background that can be certified.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

So a streamlining of the requirement for entrepreneurs is the entrepreneur's own strength—basically, financial and business capability. On the other hand, the caregiver is invited to Canada because the caregiver is required to look after some specific person.

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

Yes.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Dykstra, you have five minutes.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't know if I'll need all the time, but I appreciate it.

One of the things we did—the first piece of legislation this government passed in 2006 was Bill C-2, the Federal Accountability Act. It has given, certainly, these caregivers in this circumstance the security that they were able to come forward, that they were able to speak their minds, that they were at least protected somewhat under our legislation. And they did so. One of the concerns I have is about going through a process like that and not being able to come to a suitable conclusion in terms of assisting those caregivers.

The work this committee is doing here actually provides a format to review exactly the things you've brought forward today. How do we ensure that the process we're going through now actually assists those caregivers to make sure we don't impede or don't stop the next issue like this, which happens with a high-profile individual, from coming forward and acknowledging that things have happened that are potentially untoward or, according to their stories, have certainly put them in a very precarious and uncomfortable position? How do we ensure we're going to be able to assist these ladies?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

With regard to that point, I'm not sure which recommendation number it was the committee had in the policy paper. I can check here. I think it was proposal 23 that mentioned the three-month follow-up.

If the caregivers could follow up with some authority who could remind them of their rights on a regular basis--keep track of complaints and that sort of thing--then at a future date if that caregiver brings forth complaints, there would be something to go back to. I think that would be an excellent way of reminding them of their rights and what resources are available but also keeping track of what might be going right or wrong with the caregiver relationship.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

It seems that when we get into these situations it takes a high-profile case, a high-profile individual--whatever we may be talking about--to bring these issues more to the fore. One of the concerns I'm seeing come out of this is that there are those, for positive reasons and perhaps political and perhaps other reasons, other high-profile individuals who come forward to protect or speak on behalf of the individual in question. In this case, it is high-profile enough that the leader of the opposition actually indicated his support or his belief of his colleague versus the caregivers who presented to this committee.

I ask you not specifically about what he said, but would you not at least comment on the fact that a very high-profile person, the leader of the opposition, actually indicated his belief was of his colleague, versus the caregivers? Does that really do justice to what we're trying to accomplish here?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

If he's saying he supports his colleague, I wouldn't have any problem with that. If he's making conclusions about what any investigation might lead to, some sort of discovery, that would be inappropriate. But I think if they're simply supporting a colleague in the process, I would be temperate in criticizing them for that.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I have a couple of questions.

You mentioned two recommendations to the government. One was a form of white-listing, which I assume means preparing a list of recommended people, or recommended organizations. Who would determine that?

[Tristan Downe-Dewdney]

That would be up to the government to decide. I think that either some sort of government body or something at arm's length--maybe a body of stakeholders of some sort--but there needs to be some government oversight, for sure. But yes, I think a white list would be a fantastic idea.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You know, that's always difficult, one person saying someone is okay and another person saying that person's not okay. It could be a clash of personalities. I was interested because I would think that would be really tough to do, to prepare such a list.