Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 9th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you very much, Mr. Fadden and Ms. Chow.

Mr. Shory, please. You have seven minutes.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank Minister Kenney and the department for being here today.

The issue of foreign credential recognition is not only an important issue for our country, Minister, but it is very near and dear to my heart as well. After coming to Canada from Punjab, India, with my law degree, it was nearly ten years before I was finally called to the bar in Canada in 1998. So, Minister, I understand and appreciate our government's strong investment in integration programs for all new Canadians. I also know that our government invests heavily in evaluation of foreign credentials and is moving forward to shape the practical outcome of it.

The issue, I understand, is that once foreign education is evaluated and new Canadians complete their required courses, there are certain professions—for example, medical doctors—who have difficulty acquiring residency. My question is twofold here. What is the federal government doing in this regard? How is the federal government reaching out to the provinces to deal with this serious issue?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Certainly the experience of Mr. Shory is not unique. The regrettable thing is that there are so many foreign-trained professionals, like Mr. Shory, who never do get accredited in their chosen professions. I commend Mr. Shory for overcoming the obstacles and persevering and for being called to the bar in Canada. It is a great example for many others who feel frustrated and give up.

As the member knows, Mr. Chairman, this is a problem that's vexed successive federal governments, because at the end of the day, labour market regulation is not a federal responsibility. However, we have seen, I believe, under this government, a growing federal leadership role in accelerating and creating more transparent pathways to foreign credential recognition in the provinces. The Department of Human Resources and Skills Development has a robust foreign credential recognition program, which, among other things, provides support to local organizations that assist individuals in making their applications and in dealing with the more than 400 credentialling, recognition, and licensing bodies across the country. There are more than 40 in each province.

In the 2006 budget we created the Foreign Credentials Referral Office, which is working to provide information on the process for immigrants before they land in Canada so they can get the ball rolling before their arrival and can get a head start. Most importantly, at the January first ministers meeting here in Ottawa, the Prime Minister led his provincial and territorial colleagues to agree to the creation of a pan-Canadian framework for foreign credential recognition. The target date for an initial report is September of this year. Our budget put a $50 million investment into putting the meat on the bones of that pan-Canadian policy framework for credential recognition. Twenty-five million dollars of that $50 million is being invested through my ministry. We are focusing on the priority occupations included in the ministerial instructions under the Bill C-50 amendments to work with the relevant professional agencies in Canada.

The bottom line is that in the framework of credential recognition, a necessary precursor is labour market mobility within Canada. Part of the problem is that there are 10 to 13 different regimes in each single profession. It's ridiculous that you can go from Poland to Portugal in Europe as a medical doctor and be recognized, but you can't go from Manitoba to Saskatchewan. We need to solve that problem, which the provinces and the federal government are working on. That itself will help create a simpler, more transparent pathway to recognition.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I'm wrapping up, but I don't know if my time will allow it. I'll put three questions into one question.

Can you please describe the foreign credential situation you inherited after some very hard work by your two predecessors? What are the remaining issues with foreign credential recognition on which you see the government being able to make good progress in the short term?

Finally, I want you to make a comment on what you expect as a minister from our committee that will assist you in making progress in foreign credential recognition.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I would invite the committee to study this issue and perhaps engage in a joint study with the human resources committee. I think it' would be very useful to call before you representatives from various key licensing bodies to have them explain to you why it sometimes takes several years for a foreign-trained professional to get a clear answer. We need to exercise federal leadership, and we are, unlike ever before.

The people who are ultimately exercising the delegated authority are the licensing bodies. I think some of them have become quite progressive about this. They understand that they need to do much better and are streamlining the process. Some of them, it would appear, continue to have obstacles that are designed to maintain a closed-door approach. I don't point fingers at any particular bodies, but we all know this to be the case. I think we should call them to task. I commend a number of provinces that are getting more direct with the licensing bodies that are creatures of the provinces, including Ontario, with its Fairness Commissioner, British Columbia, and other provinces.

What have we inherited? I would say that the situation is getting significantly better, because this is a top concern among the ministries of human resources, labour, and immigration in the provincial governments and in the federal government. That wasn't the case five years ago. We all recognize that the declining economic outcomes for newcomers to Canada are in large part because of the lack of opportunities for foreign-trained professionals.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Karygiannis, please. You have five minutes.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Fadden, it's a shame to see you go. We were getting more answers from you than we're getting from the minister's office.

Minister, if a letter comes to you requesting information and data, how long does it take for us to get an answer? Is it two weeks, three weeks, four weeks, a month, two months, three months? How long does it take? Just a short answer, Minister.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

It depends on from whom the letter comes and to whom it's sent. If it's an MP--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

A member of Parliament, Minister--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Karygiannis, you have to give the minister a chance to answer your question. They're good questions.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

He's a master at running the clock out, and I have more questions for him.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're asking some good questions, but give him a chance to answer.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

If it's an MP writing directly to the minister, typically we try to turn around a response within about three weeks. If it's a member of the general public to the department, it can be a little longer.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Something was written to your department and four subsequent requests have come in since January 30. Do you think it's fair that I haven't received an answer yet? Your deputy minister was copied. The people in the department were copied as well. Your departmental aides were copied. That's four and a half months.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Would you like me to answer the question?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Do you think it's fair, Minister, yes or no?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I don't know about the particular piece of correspondence. I'd be happy to review it, Mr. Karygiannis. You can give it to me in the House any time. I would say that, no, it's not acceptable if in fact you're not getting a reply to correspondence within four months, and I'd be happy to look into that.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Minister, you said your department has decreased the length of time that it takes to process applications and yet you might have succeeded in the skilled work categories. Let me also present to you, sir, that in the family class your record is dismal. For children it has gone up by 20%, and spousal sponsorship applications have gone up by 37%. In Sri Lanka alone, children's sponsorship has gone up by 268%, from 16 months to 43 months. You are keeping parents away from their children. Worldwide, it has gone up from 10 to 12 months. Spousal sponsorship with Sri Lanka has gone up by 66%, from nine months to 15 months, and in some cases they're waiting up to three years because there are second, third, and fourth interviews from your department and CBSA on background checks. Worldwide, it's gone up by 38%.

Although you're saying you're reducing service levels, in Sri Lanka you're failing. Minister, is it because your department and your government have a view that if you're a Tamil you're a Tiger, you're a terrorist?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

No, of course it's not. The reported statistics reflect a combination of processing times for more recently received applications as well as for progress made, prioritizing, and finalizing older and more challenging applications.

Mr. Chairman, if the member would like to compare records in terms of waiting times or inventory of files, I would remind him that when he was a member of the government that took office in 1993 the total backlog--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Mr. Minister--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Excuse me. Order. Mr. Karygiannis, you have to give the witness a chance to answer. You can't interrupt the witness.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I don't want to know what happened before. They've been in government for three years, and they have a responsibility to answer. Let's not compare what happened 20 years ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You know, sir, I'm not stopping the clock because I think it's inappropriate for you to interrupt the witness. Now, you give this witness a chance to answer your questions.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chairman, to frame things in perspective, when Mr. Karygiannis was a member of the government that took office in 1993 the total inventory for all streams of immigration, I understand, was less than 50,000 cases. When our government took office in 2006, it had grown to over 800,000 cases. We are trying to contend with a very serious problem in all streams of immigration and in all source countries--

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Stay on course with Sri Lanka, Minister.