Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 9th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We will continue with the second item on the estimates, which you all have before you. We have several guests before us.

We have the Honourable Jason Kenney, Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism. From the Department of Citizenship and Immigration we have Mr. Richard Fadden, the deputy minister. We also have Mr. Amipal Manchanda, acting chief financial officer, finance sector.

Good morning.

Minister Kenney, I trust you have some introductory remarks to make to the committee.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Minister of Citizenship]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I'll try to reduce my remarks, given the fact that there's less time than usual for questions.

Before beginning I'd like to acknowledge that Mr. Manchanda is here as the acting CFO for CIC. We appreciate his professionalism. This committee has been used to Mr. Wayne Ganim, who was our CFO for the past four or five years and appeared before this committee on supplementary estimates on several occasions. Wayne just took his richly deserved retirement from the public service, and I want to acknowledge his tremendous service to our ministry and the Government of Canada as a true professional.

I'm sad to report that this will be the last time Mr. Fadden will appear before this committee as deputy minister at CIC, where he has served over the past three years as part of a very distinguished record of service to the Government of Canada. He will be moving on to become the new director of CSIS at the end of the month. I have to say that our nation's security will be in very safe hands with Mr. Fadden there. I've only had the chance to be with him for a few months, but he is a consummate professional and represents the very best in our public service.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That's the first time you've ever had applause at this committee, isn't it?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I don't think that was for you, Minister.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and colleagues.

I have the honour today to place before the committee my department's supplementary estimates (A) for fiscal year 2009-10.

It has been just over two months since I last appeared here, so I am pleased to update you on the work of my department.

Mr. Chairman, the supplementary estimates (A) include new funding requests of $76.7 million to increase departmental spending authorities to $1.43 billion for the 2009-2010 fiscal year.

In particular, Mr. Chairman, this funding involves several key areas in 2009-2010.

First, the department requests funding of $37.4 million to reflect the transfer of the government's multiculturalism programs from the Department of Canadian Heritage to Citizenship and Immigration Canada, as announced last year by the Prime Minister. This will link our multiculturalism programs with initiatives to encourage newcomers to integrate into Canadian society. Some items concerning this matter remain to be negotiated between the two departments, after which any remaining funding will be transferred to supplementary estimates (B).

Secondly, we request $14.3 million to manage the backlog and continue to modernize and better manage the immigration system. This will position us to improve our responsiveness to increased demands in both the temporary and permanent applicant categories. I will speak more about the specific results we've achieved in reducing the backlog shortly.

Third, we request funding of close to $7.1 million to help us to explore ways to improve foreign credential recognition and help prospective immigrants understand our labour markets before they come here. Pre-integration of newcomers allows them to hit the ground running the moment they arrive in Canada.

This will support development of a pan-Canadian framework on foreign credential recognition and related activities to enhance the capacity of the existing foreign credentials referral office.

We also request funding of $12.1 million to continue the activities required to plan the implementation of biometrics in the temporary visa program.

Finally, Mr. Chairman, we request funding of $2 million to support and access a multilingual departmental advertising campaign to inform newcomers about government services available to them in Canada.

Mr. Chairman, I propose to continue my remarks by highlighting some major areas and to address issues of particular interest to the committee in the time allotted to questions.

Mr. Chairman, when I appeared before this committee earlier this year, first in February and then in March, I explained how the action plan for faster immigration is yielding results. I noted that our backlog of people in the skilled worker category, which had reached approximately 600,000 individuals in 2008, had dropped to approximately 515,000 by the end of last year, a significant drop of 15%. I'm pleased that we continue to make progress on this. As of April 30 this backlog had dropped to 481,000 people, a further reduction of 7%. In other words, less than one year after our plan was introduced, we have reduced the backlog of skilled workers by over 20%. I'm confident that this reduction will continue. A smaller backlog means faster processing times.

Mr. Chairman, as Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism, I've worked to link our multiculturalism policies with the work of the other areas of this portfolio. I want to steer the discourse away from a kind of superficial multiculturalism to a deeper one that focuses on the successful and rapid integration of newcomers into Canadian society, while recognizing the contribution of all cultural communities, including those that are long settled in Canada. We need to talk more about how all communities can better integrate into our country and build bridges with each other as well as what the Government of Canada can do to commemorate the sometimes tragic experience of past immigrants to Canada.

That is, among other reasons, why our government is funding community-based commemorative and educational projects that recognize the experiences of communities affected by historical wartime measures and/or immigration restriction measures applied in Canada and that promote the contributions of these communities to building this country.

Exactly a week ago I was proud to announce that the government is partnering with B'nai Brith Canada, for example, to invest in a newly formed national task force on Holocaust research, remembrance, and education. This three-year agreement will bring together scholars, legal experts, and educators with Holocaust survivors and Jewish community stakeholders in an effort to share and enhance the important Holocaust research and educational work being done in Canada.

Mr. Chair, we need to encourage citizens already here to welcome newcomers into the Canadian family. To support this, our approach is a two-way street: to encourage both integration by newcomers and accommodation of newcomers. We expect them to be responsible to Canada and Canada to be responsible to them.

The key to this unity in diversity model is the successful integration of newcomers.

One particular focus of our efforts is to increase the uptake of settlement programs--in particular, language training. This is why we are exploring new tools to increase uptake, including a pilot project to test whether giving some sort of certificate to newcomers would motivate them to take complete language training at the service provider of their choice, empowering them as consumers.

I should note that I'm a strong supporter of the excellent organizations that currently provide services to newcomers. In visiting with dozens of them I've been impressed with their professionalism, their commitment, their drive. To better support newcomers, we need to allow for new approaches to serve people whose integration into Canada is so vital for our future.

I'll just say a few words about immigration representatives and then wrap up, Mr. Chairman.

I read with interest the report of this committee with respect to immigration representatives. I've taken note of the many very sound ideas therein. I want to let the committee know that I wanted also to hear directly from newcomers who have been exploited by ghost consultants in this field, and we've had public meetings across the country where I've heard many very disturbing stories about individuals who lost thousands of dollars and incurred great pain as a result of having been exploited by ghost consultants. We've also had online consultations to get a clearer idea of how we should proceed in this respect. We've received over 4,200 completed responses, and the results are very interesting. I'd be happy to share those with the committee if anyone is interested.

As a result of the input we received from this committee as well as from the broader public, it is my intention later this year to act to ensure the better protection of prospective immigrants to Canada, to ensure that they know they do not need to use third parties, that if they do use third parties these parties should be properly licensed, that there are real, meaningful sanctions for ghost consultants, and that we are looking at meaningful changes to the entire framework of regulation in this respect.

I always stand alert to any further suggestions from members of this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Perhaps you could wind up, Minister, please. We're almost at ten minutes.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes, I was just about to do that.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I look forward to receiving your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Okay.

Mr. Bevilacqua, please.

[Maurizio Bevilacqua, Liberal, Vaughan, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

And thank you so much, Mr. Fadden. I'd like to express my congratulations to you on taking on that new job. I hope it's not the result of working with Mr. Kenney for a few months. I'm just kidding. I really appreciate the service you've given to our country thus far. I look forward to an even greater contribution, and for that, on behalf of the Liberal Party, we are very grateful for your participation.

Minister, thank you for appearing and making this presentation. A lot of things are going on, obviously, in your department. I guess you're double-shifting as multiculturalism minister and immigration minister, which I always find fascinating, because you're either a part-time immigration minister or a part-time multiculturalism minister.

I wanted to say to you that there are so many challenges, in all seriousness, in the department. Waiting times in certain areas have gone up. You have some major challenges on the refugee system, which I hope in the near future we will be looking at in a very serious way. I've often wondered whether this government has provided you with the necessary financial resources to do the job this country needs in the area of immigration. That's one side of the story.

The other side is I was really struck by an article in Maclean's magazine, where you were interviewed. Also in that article I saw a poll that concerned me a little bit about the trends, as it relates to Canadians' tolerance—if that is the proper word to use—as it relates to the interrelationship between cultural groups and religious groups. I think this is some serious work that this committee and you as a minister need to address. There are some real warning signs that the poll indicated and outlined in a very clear way.

While this committee is really interested in working on the issues of the day, whether it's the caregiver program or the refugee system, this trend is of concern to me and requires a great deal of leadership to turn the tide. I was wondering if you share that point of view, and what you are going to do about it.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you for those excellent questions.

First of all, with respect to the first question, on resources for the department, obviously, as minister, like everyone in every department, I could always do more with more resources, but we do live in a world of limited fiscal resources, now more than ever in terms of the economic situation. Having said that, I would remind the member that the budget for the ministry is significantly larger than it was a few years ago. As I mentioned in my remarks, we're at a total budget of about $1.43 billion. I think it was in the range of about $900 million in 2004-2005. Now, a large part of the increase has been a tripling, in rough terms, of settlement funding, but there have been increases in operational funds for the department. As one example, one of the things I mentioned in my remarks is the $25 million additional that has been provided to CIC in this year's budget to work with HRSDC on the issue of foreign credential recognition. I've also discussed today the new funds for the biometrics program. There was the $109 million in last year's budget for expediting processing and dealing with the backlog, part of which is in the supplementary estimates today, I believe.

There are new resources, but could we do more with more resources? Of course. But I can't, in conscience, go to the finance minister and say that ours is the only ministry in need of greater resources. I have to commend the department for managing an ever-increasing workload with the current resources. Right now we're going through a process of strategic review, which means economizing. I'm getting some very sound ideas from the department on how to do it without reducing service levels.

As to your second and very important question, you were referring to some polling that was published in Maclean's magazine about three or four weeks ago, which indicated a troubling level of ignorance and even to a certain degree intolerance toward certain religious minorities in Canada. That is of grave concern to me, obviously, and that's why I'm saying that in a multiculturalism program I think we need to focus on building bridges between one another. In Canada we're very good at congratulating ourselves for being tolerant and diverse, but unless we know one another, that doesn't really mean a whole lot. It's important for new Canadians to get to know old-stock Canadians and vice versa. It's important for new Canadians from different countries and regions of origin and different faith groups to get to know each other. I mentioned in that interview that sometimes I find some of the greatest hostility between people who have come from similar regions of origin, and that's really what I'm focusing on.

I'll just give you one example. There's a project that we'll be announcing shortly in Toronto that I've been working on for a long time for young people from the Somali community who came here as children of refugees with very little or nothing and faced social exclusion, limited economic opportunities. We're setting up a program for those people to find internships in professions typically but not exclusively owned by members of the Jewish community. It's a great way of bridge-building between two different faith communities and providing social opportunities to those kids.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. St-Cyr, you have the floor.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

During the last Parliament, Bill C-280, a bill to implement the Refugee Appeal Division, was adopted in the House at every stage, as well as in the Senate. However, it died on the Order Paper before receiving Royal Assent.

In this Parliament, Bill C-291 also aims to implement the Refugee Appeal Division. It has been adopted and is moving forward.

I know that the Conservatives are against the implementation of the Refugee Appeal Division, as it was set out in the legislation of 2002, but has your department nevertheless set aside money, or created mechanisms, in case Parliament decides to adopt this bill?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I will ask the deputy minister to answer that.

[Richard Fadden, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Mr. Chairman, yes we do have estimates for supplementary costs. We also have the agreement of cabinet. If Parliament passes Bill C-291, the means to obtain supplementary funds have been provided for.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

I also wanted to ask you a more technical question. I see in the list of votes that will have to be passed, that there are funds for planning activities, and police and security services at the Olympic Games and at the Winter Paralympics in 2010. What exactly is the connection with immigration?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chairman, our department shares responsibility for security with regard to human trafficking. We will be working with the Canada Border Services Agency and other authorities in order to ensure that victims of human trafficking do not come to Canada during the Olympics.

Perhaps the deputy minister has something to add.

[Richard Fadden]

The minister is absolutely right, Mr. Chairman.

Furthermore, we have established a system allowing individuals to apply for visas from outside the country before their arrival in British Columbia.

We will have to ask our Immigration Services throughout the world to begin discussions with Olympic committees in order to ensure that we receive these applications before the games begin. Three or four people from the department will also be in British Columbia during the Olympics.

This is mainly for planning purposes, in order to avoid long waits at the airports in British Columbia.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

That answers my question.

I'd like to talk to you about multiculturalism, which is raised in your report.

As you know, for a long time now Quebec has used a different approach with respect to integrating newcomers. We talk about interculturalism. It is an approach that is widely supported in Quebec.

Multiculturalism Canadian- style was rejected from the very outset by Robert Bourrassa, who was a Liberal. It was also rejected by the other political parties in the National Assembly.

Even one of the NDP figureheads in Quebec, Julius Grey, stated that this model was not applicable in Quebec. We want to be able to advocate a more proactive approach to integration, based on the idea that we're all Quebeckers without exception, whether we arrived two years ago or whether our ancestors arrived two centuries ago.

This approach is always somewhat contradicted by another message that immigrants are given. In Quebec, they're told that the goal is interculturalism, that there is proactive integration into Quebec society and that they contribute to Quebec society.

On the other hand, the federal government sends a message about multiculturalism that emphasizes differences, and cohabitation that is defined by respect for each other. This message can even be found on the department's websites and its promotional material. There is a clash.

Your remarks do however indicate an interesting reconciliation. You talk more about integration than highlighting distinctions. Nonetheless the two approaches still are different.

The Bloc Québécois tabled a bill that would have removed Quebec from the Canadian multiculturalism message so that immigrants choosing Quebec would receive one straightforward message rather than two contradictory messages.

Would the government be willing, in the next session, to support such a bill, that would give the Quebec government the right to craft its own policy to integrate immigrants, especially given that most of the responsibilities required for integration already fall under the Quebec government's jurisdiction?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Monsieur St-Cyr, you're giving the minister no time for response, so unless you're going to talk for a minute....

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you. We were talking about this earlier, Mr. Chairman.

I don't really want to put too much emphasis on the terms "multiculturalism" and "interculturalism". There are good ideas in all models. Models change, they are organic; they are not static.

As I stated several times in my remarks, the federal multiculturalism program has to focus increasingly on building bridges between communities in order to improve mutual understanding and to avoid having parallel communities, as has happened in some major European centres.

We can learn from the Quebec model. Ultimately, your multiculturalism bill... The legislation is federal legislation and it applies to all of Canada. We have an agreement on immigration with Quebec, which gives it the responsibility for managing that program in that province. It is our opinion that diversity is one of the most important symbols in Canada. It can be found in the Constitution, in the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It is the legal basis for federal multiculturalism.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Minister, I noticed that according to the Canada Immigration Centre statistics, it takes about 40 months to process 50% of the privately sponsored refugees' files from your Nairobi office. Let me rephrase that: it takes more than three years to process 50% of the privately sponsored refugee claims filed in Nairobi. We know that this office is responsible for countries such as Burundi, Congo, Ethiopia, Kenya, Rwanda, Somalia, Tanzania, Uganda. These are the countries that have been subject to violent conflicts. And people from Sudan, for example, are lately making their way to Kenya, thus adding to the workload in the office.

We have millions of displaced people in that region all seeking refuge, and there are a lot of smart individuals—motivated, skilled folks—who are languishing in refugee camps. Their children are growing up in camps; pregnant women are giving birth to children. Refugee camps are not a place to raise a family.

These are people with aspirations. We know that; we've seen it. We know that many refugees—for example, the boat people—have came to Canada and done really good work here. They want to raise their families and give their children a good life. Many Canadians, and I believe you met with quite a few of them through the churches—Groups of Five, as you recall—understand the plight of these displaced people. They are privately sponsoring the refugees. Many Canadians are willing to support refugees, and there's no cost to your government other than the processing time.

But what I can see is that there's a huge backlog, and it's taking years for people either to bring their children from refugee camps to come to Canada to be united with them or to sponsor them into Canada. I have cases, recently one of a 14-year-old daughter waiting in a refugee camp. The Nairobi office told me that the officer in charge was away for three or four weeks and that no other officer could deal with that case.

Something is wrong in that office. Instead of spending $12 million fingerprinting parents visiting their children, during wedding times, the birth of babies, funerals—all these visitors you are planning to do biometrics on—why aren't you putting more funding into your overseas office to ease the backlog? It's incredibly sad to see these refugee camp people stuck in the most dangerous place in this world, really.

And the numbers have dropped. I looked them up. Since 2000 and 2001—I look at Congo—the numbers have dropped tremendously for people coming from these dangerous places. Take, for example, Somalia. A female humanitarian population that was 338 in 2001 is now down to 60. It's not as if there's no need, and the numbers are dropping and the waiting time is growing.

What's wrong, and why isn't more funding being put into those places and the target being increased?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Thank you for that very meaningful question, Ms. Chow.

First of all, let me say that we are increasing somewhat the targets for resettlement, particularly among privately sponsored refugees. When I was last at the committee, I announced our augmentation of the targets for the Middle Eastern region, with a particular focus on privately sponsored refugees. If you add up all of our targets globally, we anticipate that in 2009 you'll see an actual increase in the numbers for resettlement.

So Canada is playing its role. We do better than virtually any other country in the world in relative terms in welcoming refugees for resettlement and for protection, both as government-assisted refugees referred to us by the UNHCR and as privately sponsored refugees as well.

The issues you've raised out of Nairobi I am familiar with. I understand the frustration of people who have made applications for sponsorship of refugees in the African countries you've mentioned. On the other hand, my understanding is that the department faces some very obvious logistical difficulties operating in that region. Each one of these refugee applicants requires an interview. Frequently these interviews have to be conducted in very remote locations, sometimes in rural villages that are hundreds if not thousands of miles away from Nairobi.

We have a fully staffed immigration program in our mission in Nairobi. The department advises me that there's no physical space to add people in that mission, that we are at full capacity. I'm going to invite the deputy to fill in here, because these are operational issues, but I don't think it's a question of lack of resources. There are just some very serious logistical challenges in processing applications in a region such as the one you've raised.

[Richard Fadden]

Mr. Chairman, to supplement what the minister said, Nairobi is responsible for 19 countries of accreditation. In some cases, in order to get to a particular country you have to go through three airports. In some cases you cannot use the mail or courier services, because they don't exist. In many countries it's unlawful to use the mails to transfer passports over international borders. So it is extremely time-consuming. In some parts of the area that's covered by Nairobi, it's dangerous to travel.

I think everybody in Nairobi is doing the best they can. We review on a quarterly basis staff assignments in our missions around the world. While I don't think we have a lot of room left in Nairobi, if we come to the conclusion that we can do more with more bodies, we'll try to send people in on temporary duty.

But the issue in Nairobi is not really bodies and it's not really money. It's just 19 countries. The way Canada has divided up its diplomatic representation in that part of the world is not something that we control, so we're doing the best we can.

Also, we have a responsibility to protect program integrity. In many cases, the simple fact that somebody puts in an application doesn't mean that they're even distantly related. We have a responsibility to ensure that we check into these matters. Very often, because of the conditions I've just outlined, it takes a long time.