Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 20th, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Then we're finished.

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Excuse me. Just one minute.

Did you want to make a motion on something, Mr. Karygiannis?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

There's a motion, and if we have the time I could certainly address it now, or I can come back to it next time. Everybody was given an opportunity to....

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Maybe we'll distribute this to the members, if you could hold on for a moment, Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

This is a motion that Mr. Karygiannis served some time ago, so it should be familiar to you.

Do we all have copies?

[An hon. member]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Karygiannis, would you move the motion?

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I'd like to move this motion. It is something I submitted back on September 18. It was in our briefing books.

I would like to call departmental officials as well as witnesses so that we can review what we see time and time again in our constituency offices. We get people coming in saying that their application for a visitor's visa for their parents has failed or that an application for a visitor's visa, be it for diplomats or for a performing group that is coming to Canada, has failed.

Most often, although we're able to give them advice on what to do or not do, we're not getting information back from the post. The post sometimes sends us back an answer saying that they failed and that's it; go away and leave us alone. Although we try our best to give information and direction to our constituents on how to make a perfect application, time and again there's a bit of failure on everybody's part.

This is an opportunity for us to call witnesses, stakeholders, and department officials and to examine how the process is done, how we can make things better, and how we can answer our constituents. It's not only for members of this committee but for other members also. From this we will get more information. I believe that at the end of the day we would be serving our constituents as well as people who want to come to visit Canada.

Many people applying to come to Canada figure they can send their application in without any supporting documentation, or the supporting documentation is not what it needs to be, or other countries do not have supporting documentation of the kind we want. We ask people to present tax returns, but from countries where there's no taxation whatsoever, what tax returns can they present?

There are people who feel that they've been wronged when they apply. I'd like the opportunity—at this session, or whenever we get some free time—to call people in to examine this.

There are also people who report that they cannot go to a post, people who live in countries where it's difficult for them to go. For example, people from Armenia who want to apply for a visitor's visa need to travel to Moscow, or they can send it in. They never get an opportunity to see an immigration official face to face. Maybe we need to look at an opportunity for people from those countries; we may need to get more site visits into those countries where we have no posts.

That's one of the things I'm bringing to this table, and I'm looking for the support of the committee because I think we all face those difficulties. Although we have a high success rate from a lot of countries, there are things we can do better to attract more visitors to Canada as we try to beef up our economy and make it better.

I've seen reports coming out of China where people have applied and have failed because they don't include everything; people sometimes don't think they have to.

So I'm giving this to the committee and asking for your support.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to speak in favour of this motion.

I have noticed that we turn down about 20% of the applicants for visitors' visas. That's about 200,000 each year—we bring in 1,000,000. There seems to be a variation in some visa offices. In Chandigarh or Islamabad the refusal rate is very high, whereas in other visa offices the approval rate is extremely high. The officials send out a standard answer form on which there's just a check box that says “you do not have sufficient ties”; I'm sure all of us have seen these kinds of forms.

Often we are asked as members of Parliament to intervene. The applicants and the relatives here in Canada should not have to call upon their member of Parliament to intervene in these cases.

I think, if nothing else, we should examine this matter and look at how other countries, such as Australia and England, deal with this. They have an appeal process, but we haven't. At a bare minimum, the process needs to be more transparent; it needs to appear fairer. Right now, many applicants who are rejected have no reason for having been refused. It's very difficult for them to understand why Canada is turning them down.

We're talking about 200,000, which is a very large number of applicants, and their relatives here in Canada. I would definitely support studying this issue.

I know we are dealing with foreign credentials this Thursday, and a few weeks later we're dealing with family class wait times. My understanding, Mr. Chair, is that after we do the family class wait times we do not have a matter in front of the committee. This would fit perfectly after we do the family class wait times. I would support this as a priority after the two issues in the next few weeks. I think we're ready to look at this issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

This motion has been on the books for awhile. It has been tabled and is being introduced today. One of the things we have done at this committee is refer these types of study motions to our steering committee to find a time and proper place for the study to be done. I would recommend that we refer it to our steering committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Let's see whether it carries first. If it carries, then your comments are legitimate. If it doesn't carry, your comments aren't legitimate.

Mr. Kania.

[Andrew Kania, Liberal, Brampton West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not on this committee, as you know. I've only been an MP for one year, but my impression, having worked with the immigrant communities for years before as a lawyer, is that during the last four years there has been a significant increase in denials of visitors' visas. I personally think there is a crisis in this country with respect to treating immigrants fairly and allowing their friends and family to come to visit.

In July, at an event called the World Punjabi Conference, which was a thinkers' conference to promote Punjabi culture at which Minister Kenney and I spoke, it came to light that of these thinkers and academics who were trying to come into Canada to speak and participate at this conference, 12 out of 12 people from Pakistan had been denied visas, and 50 out of 75 from India had been denied visas. I called at that time for public review by the minister of these visa requirements; it was in the press. I've been ignored by the minister. I think this motion needs to be adopted so that we can consider this fully.

As well, I have written confirmation from the minister's office now—because with the number of denials in the countries of origin, what next occurs is that people apply for minister's permits—that they will not accept and consider applications for minister's permits for special occasions any longer, for weddings, anniversaries, and those sorts of things. In circumstances where the minister will no longer take the time to consider special occasions, it is imperative that we consider and make sure that the visa requirements at the ground level in the countries of origin are fair and transparent. We must be considering this.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I'd like to add to what my colleague Mr. Kania said.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to make a correction. I think the minister will not entertain any requests for minister's permits if they're coming from the opposition parties; however, sir—

[An hon. member]

No, no, that's not true; that's—

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Let me have my say.

[An hon. member]

What does this have to do with the motion?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

All right, let's stop this.

We're going to vote now.

(Motion agreed to)

I think Mr. Dykstra is correct. We have an agenda that we have set. The committee has approved it; the motion has carried. I would suggest that this matter be put to the subcommittee, to be perhaps dealt with at the end of what our current agenda includes.

Is that agreed?

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I would add, just as a clarification, that this matter should be referred to the subcommittee to be added to the agenda.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I don't know. We're getting tricky here.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

It is not complicated. When we adopt a motion such as this.... In subcommittee, when we set the agenda, we look at.... Before the steering committee meets again, we will no doubt have adopted a few others, in keeping with tradition. We review them and set priorities. That is all that needs to be done.