Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 22nd, 2009

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

That's okay. I'll be really quick.

I have a question on the Foreign Credentials Referral Office that was set up. Do you have any thoughts on that? Is it helping to meet a need? Is it a good idea, going in the right direction?

[Elizabeth McIsaac]

I think it's going in absolutely the right direction. I think the work that it's doing overseas, as I just mentioned, is absolutely necessary. I also think the office is well-positioned to take on some of this national direction-setting. I think they could perhaps host a national mentoring program or internship program, channel it through them. I think they're perfectly positioned to do some of that coordination across provinces or perhaps to launch a loan fund so that those things have a central place to sit. I think it has to be effectively linked with the objectives of HRSDC. I know there's still an FCRO over at HRSDC, and I'm not sure how those connect, but I think they do. It's labour market and immigration, and I think we need to make sure those stay together.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Owen, Ms. Casipullai, Ms. McIsaac, all three of you have given excellent presentations and have been very helpful to the committee. I thank you for coming.

We will suspend for one minute.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We'll start with the second panel.

We have before us Ms. Wendy Swedlove. Welcome, and thank you for coming. She is with the Alliance of Sector Councils.

You may begin.

[Wendy Swedlove, Chair, Working Group on Immigration and Foreign Credential Recognition, Alliance of Sector Councils]

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you for the invitation to appear today. My name is Wendy Swedlove. My day job is president of the Canadian Tourism Human Resource Council, but I'm here representing the Alliance of Sector Councils, which brings together a network of more than 30 sector councils.

I chair the immigration and FCR working group of the Alliance of Sector Councils. This group brings together councils that are working in this arena, to discuss issues related to FCR and integration of new immigrants and to share their best practices.

First I'd like to provide a little background on sector councils. I know there is not as much awareness as we would like out there about sector councils.

Each council unites representatives from business, labour, education, and government. A council's mandate is to identify solutions to labour market issues and to assist their sector in implementing solutions to those issues. Those solutions can range from the development of occupational standards, education and training resources, certification, credentialling programs, bridging programs, and career promotion, all the way to the successful integration of recent immigrants into that sector's workforce.

For sector councils, foreign credential recognition is key to effective integration. Probably 80% of employed workers in our sectors are from non-regulated occupations, and a significant proportion of those workers are in lower-skill occupations. For sector councils, FCR includes competency recognition. Competency comes not only from education and credentials but also from experience and informal training on the job and how it is that we recognize that.

Increasingly, employers in our organizations are concerned with what an individual can do. Tourism employers, for example, are also concerned with language capability, essential skills, and it's often articulated by employers as a need for Canadian work experience. That was spoken about in the last group, and I agree entirely with the speaker on that one.

Until a year ago, skill and labour shortages were a major problem for business. As the economy recovers, these shortages will reappear. In some sectors and in some parts of Canada, they have persisted even in this economic climate. Immigration is one solution to those shortages.

Several sector councils have worked with their employers in the immigration system to fill labour supply gaps. The temporary foreign worker program and the provincial nominee program have worked very effectively, and the pilot project for low-skill occupations helped a lot. The new Canadian economic class will also assist employers to retain temporary foreign workers but mostly still in higher-skill occupations.

Employers of individuals at the C and D levels would very much appreciate being able to bring in workers permanently when the labour supply and demand gaps warrant. For some sectors, such as retail and tourism, this could be very important in the future.

In an effort to help industry facilitate the integration of newcomers, councils have worked with the foreign credentials referral office at CIC and the FCR program at HRSDC in a number of ways. Resources have been developed for foreign workers considering coming to Canada, to identify opportunities and skill requirements.

The occupational standards developed by councils can help with communicating skill requirements. Credential recognition, as it exists in Canada right now, does not deal with the large number of individuals who can work without an academic credential. Council certification programs recognize those competencies as they have been identified in occupational standards.

Some initiatives that councils have undertaken involved the preparation of individuals and assessment of their skills in their home countries prior to coming to Canada. Several councils have certification programs and access to those programs online so that a Canadian credential can be acquired abroad, giving the potential immigrant an advantage when looking for a job in Canada. The environment and tourism councils both have well-developed programs in this area.

Resources have been developed to help employers connect with immigrant-serving agencies to find workers. Labour market information produced by councils also helps employers when requesting labour market opinions.

Resources have also been developed for employers to help newcomers adjust to their workplaces. The IT sector council has a comprehensive program connecting potential foreign workers to employers in Canada. There are resources and a mentoring program for employers and a bridging program facilitating integration.

The Construction Sector Council is piloting a program matching employment opportunities in the construction industry and landed immigrant skills in British Columbia. To date this has involved 500 immigrants.

Councils have produced guides for employers wishing to avail themselves of the temporary foreign worker program. Tourism and trucking are examples here.

The Alliance of Sector Councils has worked with FCRO to produce The Employer's Roadmap, and that's been mentioned several times already. The alliance will be holding workshops for employers across Canada on the importance of effective integration of immigrants to the Canadian workplace. Sector councils will all participate by inviting their employer communities to these workshops.

The alliance has also developed an online resource for newcomers and for immigrant parents in Canada so that those parents will have a better idea of career opportunities for their children.

In conclusion, we believe that sector councils can be effective partners in facilitating selection, preparation, and integration of new immigrants into the Canadian workplace. We've been working with both FCRO and Human Resources and Skills Development Canada as a bridge to the employer community. There is much still to be done, and we look forward to expanding these initiatives.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Swedlove.

Monsieur Beaudin, you are next.

[Yves Beaudin, National Coordinator, Canadian Information Centre for International Credentials, Council of Ministers of Education, Canada]

My presentation will be made in French.

Mr. Chair, members of the standing committee, I want to thank you for inviting us here to share our views with you.

For some time now, the provinces and territories, along with many partners, have been taking a hard look at the issue of foreign credential recognition. Human Resources and Skills Development Canada's Foreign Credential Recognition Program has contributed a great deal to moving this important file forward and we wish to commend the department for its excellent spirit of cooperation over the past several years.

CICIC has also benefited from this program. We invite you to take a look at the report on Pan-Canadian Quality Standards in International Credential Evaluation which we handed out to you at the beginning of our presentation. The report highlights the urgent need for all organizations responsible for assessing academic credentials to agree on pan-Canadian quality standards in international credential evaluation.

In the mid-1990s, Canada ratified and signed two conventions on credential recognition, one of which is commonly referred to as the Lisbon Convention. Further to ratification, CICIC and its partners created the Alliance of Credential Evaluation Services of Canada composed of credential assessment services with provincial and territorial mandates. The Alliance developed General Guiding Principles for Good Practice in the assessment of foreign credentials along with a quality assurance framework. We invite you to read about the framework's objectives in the document handed out at the start of the presentation.

In addition, other services recognized by CICIC for the quality of their comparative assessments have undertaken to comply with the General Guiding Principles for Good Practice and with the Recommendation on Criteria and Procedures for the Assessment of Foreign Qualifications adopted as part of the Lisbon Convention.

Foreign credential recognition is a process involving an in-depth review of documents provided by foreign-trained workers.

We know that there are some 800 degree mills worldwide. We also know that is it relatively easy to obtain almost-perfect foreign diplomas and transcripts from recognized institutions without ever setting foot in these institutions.

Therefore, in our view, it is important that foreign qualifications be systematically assessed to validate their authenticity and to compare them with pan-Canadian quality standards. Such assessments can be performed by educational institutions, regulated associations, trades authorities and services mandated by provinces and territories, by members of the Alliance of Credential Evaluation Services of Canada and by other services recognized by CICIC.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Beaudin, could I ask you to slow down for the translator? You're doing a great job, but I think she's having trouble.

[Yves Beaudin]

The Declaration filed by Canada at the time the Convention on the Recognition of Qualifications was ratified sets out the responsibilities of stakeholders.

To our knowledge, immigration officers stationed abroad are not trained to assess international credentials. Hopefully, changes will be made to the selection process to bring the assessment of foreign schooling levels in line with international criteria, or at least, to entrust the process to trained credential evaluators, prior to immigration officers reviewing an immigration application. We believe that education points awarded during the selection process should not be based on the number of years of schooling. A better approach would be to base them on the level of the credentials produced, ideally following an assessment of such credentials by recognized Canadian services. Foreign credentials can be compared by international analysts trained here in Canada with Canadian credentials.

As a country, we have an obligation to new immigrants. It is important that each immigrant obtain a comparative assessment of his or her credentials. We are, however, concerned with current initiatives that would allow these individuals to obtain certificates that is not recognized by competent authorities. In the long run, this could prove detrimental to the integration of new immigrants.

We would also like to commend the authorities at the Foreign Credentials Referral Office. This office seems to grasp the importance of performing fair and credible comparative evaluations of foreign credentials. In recent meetings, we have offered the Office our full cooperation.

CICIC's main objective is to work with its partners to develop tools to facilitate the assessment of assessing foreign credentials. The Centre works closely with a well-established international network of some 53 countries, as well as with all of Canada's provinces and territories, several federal departments, national associations and a number of sectoral councils. We promote the tools available to carry out fair and equitable comparative evaluations.

Access to quality assessments is, in our view, the collective responsibility of the federal government and of the provinces.

We have four recommendations to make to the committee. Firstly, we would like to see immigration authorities attach greater importance to the provisions of the Lisbon Convention, or treaty, to its recommendations and to its Codes of Good Practice.

Secondly, immigration officers working abroad need to obtain information on foreign credentials from Canadian sources, not from foreign countries, when awarding education points to prospective immigrants, to minimize the risk of divergent assessments.

Thirdly, the Immigration Act should be amended to change the method of calculating education points to a basis derived from the level of schooling, rather then the number of years of schooling, and to require a comparative evaluation...

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Monsieur Beaudin. I'm sorry, we're really pressed for time. It will have to come out in questions.

I apologize for not properly introducing Monsieur Beaudin. He is the national coordinator of the Canadian Information Centre for International Credentials, Council of Ministers of Education, Canada.

Next, we have two witnesses from the Alberta International Medical Graduates Association: Shahnaz Sadiq and Tasnim Waqar.

Did I pronounce that correctly?

[A voice]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

The two of you have up to 10 minutes, although hopefully it will be less because our colleagues want to ask some questions of you.

[Shahnaz Sadiq, President, Alberta International Medical Graduates Association]

Thank you very much.

As you know, I am from IMGA. It is a non-profit organization that was begun in the year 2000.

There are more than 600 IMGs currently in Alberta who have acquired their medical degree from various parts of the world. Canada is not fully conversant with the educational curriculum, standard of training, and registration procedures of each country from where these IMGs have qualified. This lack of knowledge about the foreign universities causes extraordinary delays in the evaluation of the degrees and training of the IMGs. On the other hand, IMGs who have immigrated to Canada are not familiar with the Canadian health care system and they invariably become highly frustrated at the very slow pace of their integration.

IMGA has become a bridge between the IMGs and the Canadian health care system. It primarily represents the interests of IMGs, but it also can assist the licensing bodies in streamlining the evaluation procedure and thus expedite the integration of IMGs. This is possible because we understand the needs and requirements of the Canadian health care system, and we also know the requirement of each individual foreign medical graduate.

The important areas that need assessment are language abilities of the candidates, undergraduate medical standards of the foreign country, and the standards of post-graduate training.

We have some challenges, and I will make some recommendations.

Number one, the assessment of the qualifications of the IMGs is the most critical and time-consuming part of registration. Based on current statistics, countries from where the majority of the IMGs are immigrating to Canada should be identified. Teams of experts from Canada should visit these countries and thoroughly review the post-graduate process and standards, the course manuals of foreign universities for equivalency to those of Canadian universities, should ensure that their own countries accredit the foreign medical schools, and study the regulatory bodies and their controls and restrictions in these countries. The committee might consider a federal grant for such a study. English or French language abilities of the candidates may be assessed by appropriate examination, such as TOEFL.

Number two, better coordination of regulatory bodies is required. After successful completion of the Medical Council of Canada examinations, candidates apply to CaRMS, and other provincial examinations, such as OSCE, for entry into the IMGA residency program.

There's a need to have better coordination of these regulatory bodies at the provincial and federal levels. For instance, 121 residency positions remained unfilled after the second iteration for the residency-1 match, while hundreds of LMCC qualified IMGs were still waiting. Family medicine alone had 81 positions that were unfilled, while 2.5 million Canadians do not have a family physician. In the 2008-09 matches to the IMGA residency program, seven positions were unfilled, although funds were available for these positions. Alberta alone has a shortage of 1,300 physicians. I think it's a great loss.

Number three, the shortage of preceptors is an important issue. Monetary and other incentives can attract the recruitment of more family physicians as preceptors. Primary care can be utilized for physician support. The federal government may be able to play a positive role in this regard, such as a task given to those family physicians who act as preceptors.

Number four, community practices can be utilized as a source of supervised training for IMGs in urban and rural areas.

Number five, standardized assessment procedures should be in place that recognize previous clinical experiences all over Canada.

Number six, skills-based bridging courses, or bridging courses that are formally recognized, can fill in the gaps to facilitate smooth integration of IMGs. Courses for ethics and patient autonomy are primary issues in the Canadian health care system. Sensitive issues, such as death and dying, are part of the Canadian medical education that IMGs need to learn. The federal government can initiate funds for such courses at selected locations all over Canada.

Number seven is the need for self-directed learning for IMGs with mentors from community hospitals and post-secondary institutes. A mentorship program initiated as a pilot project in Alberta needs to be supported for the future, as this could be a starting point for all IMGs to get Canadian health care experience and subsequently provide structured training to IMGs.

Number eight, the Calgary clinical assistance program and international medical graduate preceptorship program in Alberta have been successful in providing services in hospitals, under supervision, for IMGs for the past few years.

These IMGs undergo regular evaluations, comparable to those of Canadian graduates. However, most of these programs end in two years, leaving participants without any plan for the future. These experiences should lead to accreditation and licensure of participants.

Number nine, IMGs with less than three years out of practice should be considered for a supervised licence without undergoing further training. Others may apply for residency programs. The fast-track project is currently funded by CIC, and research is expected to be completed by March 2010.

My last recommendation is that IMGs with more than three years out of independent practice but who have been working under supervision for more than five years can be assessed and could become valuable members of multi-disciplinary teams in the specialty and family clinics.

These complex issues can be resolved by our federal and provincial political leaders with the help of experts from provincial licensing boards, the College of Family Physicians of Canada, and the Royal College of Physicians of Canada.

I represent AIMGA, which hopes to play a positive role for IMGs as well as the Canadian health care system.

I thank the Honourable Mr. Devinder Shory for bringing this issue to such a high forum. I want to thank the committee for giving us an opportunity to apprise you of the challenges being faced by the IMGs and discuss some possible solutions. We are all very proud to be Canadians, and it is very moving for the IMGs to know that this House is at least aware of our suffering.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Sadiq.

We have one further witness who somehow was left off the list, and we apologize for that. Her name is Christiane Gagnon, and she is vice-president of l'Office des professions du Québec.

Welcome to the committee. You have, hopefully, not more than 10 minutes. We are really short of time here.

[Christiane Gagnon, Vice-Chair, Office des professions du Québec]

Merci.

My presentation will also be in French.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak to you today about Quebec's system for foreign credential recognition.

I will be talking primarily about the current recognition tools used, as well as the recent initiatives taken by the Office des professions in the area of credential recognition.

I want to begin by saying a few words about the Office des professions du Québec. This board was established pursuant to framework legislation, namely the Professional Code. Its main mission is to protect the public and the system comes under the jurisdiction of the Minister of Justice, who is responsible for the application of professional acts. The Office is comprised of a five-member board, with three of the members representing the public, an Interprofessional Council made up of 45 professional orders and 335,000 members of professional orders. The Office's role is to adapt the system to today's needs, to monitor mechanisms, including credential recognition, and to adapt laws and regulations. There are over 23 professional laws and over 600 regulations governing this sector.

Professional orders have long been interested in credential recognition mechanisms. Initially, a degree entitled a person to receive a license. Training sanctioned by a diploma gave a person the right to practise a profession. Provision for this is made in government regulations. From the outset, however, it was generally acknowledged that there were others ways for a person to be qualified. The credentials of a person from outside Quebec could be recognized and that person could be granted a license.

In 1994, each of Quebec's 45 professional orders was required to adopt regulations concerning diploma or training equivalency, so that an internationally trained person, or someone who trained in Quebec but did not received a degree, could be licensed.

The world, however, is changing. Thirty-six years later, we talk about labour mobility and requirements. We want to attract immigrants more and more of them come knocking on our doors. We need to adapt and to improve our procedures. But at the same time, we continue to demand of professionals a certain level of competence. It is important for us to continue to rigorously assess credentials, recognizing as best we can the qualifications of internationally trained workers. So then, the pressure is on to adapt professional system mechanisms that were invented in a different era.

The Professional Code was again amended in 2006. New types of licenses were created. A person may now be issued a license to practice if he holds a license issued in another province. This right forms the basis of the agreement on labour mobility in Canada. Restricted licenses may also be issued to persons who have received specialized training in the field of education, for example, or research. Temporary licenses may also be issued to students of a particular profession.

In 2007, to counter anticipated labour shortages, the Quebec government launched a labour mobility strategy that identified five major priorities, two of which concern us at this time.

First of all, the France-Quebec agreement on foreign credential recognition which was signed exactly one year ago is an international first. The agreement provides for a special, fast-track process that orders can use to recognize the credentials of workers trained outside Quebec. This is a new concept: competence is evaluated on the basis of equivalency of types of training and fields of practice, and if substantial differences are noted, provision will be made for compensation measures.

Another priority for Quebec is the fast-tracking of professional qualification recognition. I have the honour of chairing a committee looking into this matter which brings together representatives from several departments, namely Education, Immigration and Health and Employment.

One area that we are most interested in is how to recognize experience over and above professional training.

Regarding the time limit for processing recognition applications, there is no denying that the process is a lengthy one. Professional orders have often been accused by the media of being the parties mainly responsible for delays. Significant improvements are being made to the process and all of Quebec's professional orders are mindful of the importance of improving the quality of procedures. However, we cannot forget the stakeholders other than the professional orders who are involved in this recognition process. Obviously, as mentioned earlier, there is the Department of Immigration which has a responsibility to properly inform applicants at the outset of the lengthy process involved in having their professional credentials recognized here in Canada.

I have to say that Quebec's Department of Immigration and Cultural Communities has posted on its website up to date information that professional orders and the department consult extensively to ensure that foreign candidates are well informed. As well, the candidate himself has a responsibility to ensure that his file is up to date and that all supporting documentation is provided. Most orders have told us that once they have a candidate's complete file, it takes less than one year, and often only a few weeks, to recognize professional equivalency.

Educational institutions are another very important player in this process. When a person's credentials are not recognized, or are only partially recognized, some skill upgrading may be needed to acquire the missing qualifications. Unfortunately, access to booster training is, to put it mildly, relatively difficult at this time, whether at the university or college level.

The Office is currently working with all government partners and authorities representing educational institutions to implement solutions to this problems

And finally, the last partner to play a role in the smooth integration of new immigrants is the labour force. Simply having a license is not a surefire guarantee of a job. Some work still needs to be done in this area.

In conclusion, Quebec's professional system must be mindful of both fast-tracking the professional recognition process and protecting the public at the same time. Fast-tracking credential recognition must never come at the expense of the required quality and competence. The professional system has been grappling with this challenge for several years and I must stress here that a number of stakeholders are involved in this process.

So then, let me assure you that Quebec is working hard to fast-track the professional qualification recognition process. We keep a watchful eye on steps being taken elsewhere in the world and we look to these initiatives for inspiration to continue modernizing the professional system and innovating in the field of professional qualification recognition.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Each caucus will have five minutes.

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all of you for coming from right across Canada.

The foreign credentials portal of the government and the foreign credentials recognition are important things that government after government is trying to do better than the one before. However, having set up a portal, this government said it was going to be the last thing, and everything was going to be hunky-dory and everything was going to work. I wonder how many of you have visited that portal.

You have visited the portal? Are you satisfied with what it has on it?

[Wendy Swedlove]

I don't think anyone can ever be satisfied. Nothing is ever good enough, but we are making some great progress. I think that we in the world of sector councils like the links, because no one portal can ever offer all the information, but if you have effective links to the places where....

I will use tourism as an example. If a potential immigrant finds the government's portal, the government isn't going to give that immigrant chapter and verse on the tourism industry in Canada, but if it has an effective link to a tourism site, and particularly one about employment in the tourism industry, and that potential immigrant is interested in working in tourism, they can then...it's the going between sites and having each site really effective.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

I want to thank you for talking about links and sites. I'm an industrial engineer from the University of Toronto, and let me pretend that I'm a new immigrant. I will go to the links and try to find work. You're talking about tourism and all that stuff, but the prospective immigrant coming to Canada wants to find work. If I enter my postal code I get people in my area who are providing assistance. When I call them at the end of the day and tell them I'm an engineer looking for work, they will tell me they are sorry and I have the wrong information.

Having navigated that foreign credentials portal on which we have spent millions of dollars, I found it to be useless. It's absolutely not satisfying, and I have yet to find one prospective immigrant who's looking for work. You're all here telling us you want us to help these people find work. Point to the links and all that stuff, but at the end of the day, if I can't find work it's useless.

I have yet to find one person who says the foreign credentials portal has helped them find work. If you in your association with people have found one person or a number of people who say they have travelled the portal and were able to find work, I'd like to meet them.

I'll share my time with Mrs. Mendes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You've given her about two minutes.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for Mr. Beaudin.

I'd like you to talk about your fifth recommendation. You did not have time to get to it during your presentation, but I find it rather interesting and I'd like to hear more about it.

[Yves Beaudin]

We believe it is extremely important that comparative evaluations be done at almost every level, as part of the responsibility that falls to the provinces and territories.

We think it is extremely risky to have national associations grant certification. When persons subsequently try to have their qualifications recognized by professional orders mandated by law, they will encounter serious problems. Moreover, if we want to treat our immigrants fairly, we have a duty to show them some respect and to help them seek professional qualification recognition from the provinces and territories.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

I'm sorry, Ms. Mendes.

You have the floor, Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for coming here.

I am especially happy to have listened to Mr. Beaudin and Ms. Gagnon make their presentations in French. The last time we had so many witnesses speak French, we were in Montreal. It is always enjoyable when this happens.

Ms. Gagnon, you described quite clearly the characteristics of Quebec's professional system. You spoke at length about title recognition and stressed the recognition of qualifications. The process generally involves assessing the extent to which foreign credentials are equivalent to local credentials and qualifications.

However, people or critics often ask us why we don't simply administer exams. Instead of comparing one university degree to another acquired elsewhere, why not simply ask the applicant to prove his or competence by passing a test?

[Christiane Gagnon]

That's a good question.

Examinations are an important consideration. The problem with them is that some people have already been evaluated, either in France, Alberta or somewhere else. They arrive here and are told that they must once again undergo testing. We are trying to get away from having the same people be tested again on the same subjects.

For immigrants, it is no secret that the examination process is extremely difficult. It implies an analysis process that is not necessarily understood in every country and involves many irritants or negatives.