Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 10th, 2009

[Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

When you talk about employment integration as well as integrating newcomers, do you not think that Canadian embassies should have another role to play? I will explain what I mean. I have billeted foreign students, including a Thai woman who came here to learn English. England was her first choice and Canada, her second. She ended up in a completely French-speaking family and did not even know that we spoke French in Canada.

So when you talk about immigrants being shocked when they arrive in Canada, is it not possible to do a better job of preparing them in terms of the information they are given and the explanations they receive about the challenges they will face? We always hear about the temperature shock, but there is also the cultural shock, which would be lessened if embassies in the immigrant's country of origin could give them additional information to better prepare them for potential challenges. For a number of years now, we have been advertising Canada as the best country in the world, but we may have forgotten to prepare immigrants for the challenges of living here.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have one minute to answer that long question.

[Patrick Au]

Pre-migration and post-migration settlement services are important. For example, we have clients who have studied here for the past 10 years. They go back to their home countries and come back after 10 years with their whole families. Their status changes, because by the time they come here with their families, with the job changes, it's only student status. It's free. So they still have adjustment problems, even though they studied here, after 10 years.

You mentioned that pre-migration and post-migration are very important. Before migration they know the information, but post-migration it's the existing environment that is the challenge every day.That is the reality they have to face.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mrs. Wong.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you very much for coming. We have an Ontario panel today. I'd like to ask about some of the practices that have been used in British Columbia and see if they are good ideas for Ontario.

First of all, we keep saying there's no funding. However, statistics show that only 25% of the budget allocated to English or French language learning has been used.

Can you explain to us from your experience why this is happening? You are dying for funding for language training, for example, but only 25% of people are using it.

[Patrick Au]

At our agency we don't provide language classes. We just have funding for the ISAP, the immigrant settlement adaptation program. So we don't have LINC or the other program.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

What about Mr. Shan?

[Neethan Shan]

We don't provide that, but a lot of our member agencies do. From our personal experience there are certain structural things such as reporting quarterly, disbursements, and staff turnover--you probably know about it more at CIC. Certain branch-related changes might have contributed to some of it. But we are not a front-line organization. I can definitely ask our member agencies to report back.

I think the Afghan Women's Organization is providing classes.

[Adeena Niazi]

Our LINC classes are women-only classes. We have two classes for men in the evening. On the turnover in our classes, a big majority of those newcomers attend classes, but because of other family commitments they sometimes stay back. Most of the immigrants who come here want to get jobs. They want to go to classes part time. That could also be a barrier for them.

It's good to remember that we have two streams of immigrants coming here: refugees and other immigrants. Ninety-five percent of our clients from the Afghan community come as refugees or families of refugees. Their needs are completely different.

In general, as far as language being a barrier, families are working with the youth and they're going to school. The youth are doing very well. We did a survey, and almost 85% of the youth make it to the university level. They also get good jobs.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

In Ontario we're starting a project called language training vouchers. New immigrants are given vouchers upon arrival. They can choose which agencies or schools to attend to learn an official language.

What do you think of that idea?

[Patrick Au]

The voucher idea is good. The people, when they speak English...most of them are from poor families. They are marginalized, and this gives them some incentive to go. It's very good.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

You talked about pre-landing orientation. Are you aware of three projects happening right now? There's one in India, one in the Philippines, and one on China. Professionals are given prior information on how to apply for certification. They even get matched with some potential employers. B.C. has been very successful in matching them.

Do you think this kind of service would be very helpful?

[Joe Chang]

I definitely think so. Having the information before they land reduces the shock and gets them well prepared. I think it's a very good idea.

I also like the idea of giving them language vouchers. In our agency we don't provide basic language training. We don't have LINC, and we don't have ESL classes. But we focus on the employment part and give them a lot of soft skills training. We give them advanced language training to introduce them to the workplace culture.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Regarding language and workplace....

Can I use somebody else's time later...?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Go ahead.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Okay.

Another area is about certification, foreign credential recognition. Are you aware of the fact that, jointly, we just made an announcement that there will be 14 professionals across the nation? It's not just one province, because it's a national recognition of credentials. Do you think this is a good move, that the federal government is moving nationally to help in the foreign credential recognition?

[Joe Chang]

I wouldn't say it's a good move or a bad move. I would say it's a positive move. This is something that we do to make sure that we are equally fair to everyone, but we still have a lot to logistically put in place. All the regulated bodies have to come up with a plan on how they can integrate those credentials into the Canadian system.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Yes. We're starting, so we'd just like your input down the road.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You go ahead.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Okay.

Another thing about language training.... Again, in British Columbia, there are several language and job combined skills—we call them combined skills—training programs that I have been involved with in the past. For example, we use what we call ESP, English for specific purposes, like medical English. It is also a combination of somebody learning how to bake, to be a baker, and at the same time learning the language for it, because it's for specific purposes. Then there are pre-accounting programs, where they also learn about specific languages useful for accounting. Do you think this is also a good model to follow down the road?

[Joe Chang]

This is what we think is the right solution. Number one, you put the terminology and the language together with a group of people, and also you're putting the group of people together to network with each other. So that's a good move, definitely.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

That's a good model from British Columbia.

And also, Ms. Niazi, about women, and especially looking for language training.... Again, in the past, there have been programs specifically for immigrant women, helping them with the workplace, etiquette, and the cultural.... Do you think those kinds of programs might be useful specifically for immigrant women?

[Adeena Niazi]

Yes, that would be very useful. Also, referring to the job-specific language training, it exists here in Toronto as well. We used to call it ELT, employment language training. We found that very useful because it teaches the terminology, and also the workplace. That would be useful, for sure.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Okay.

Another model of training is for nursing. I understand in British Columbia, in some of the colleges--in nursing schools, in fact--they all recruit foreign-trained nurses and put them through one year of training. First of all, of course, through language training, because they have to write English exams in order to get the registered nursing status. At the same time, they are placed in hospitals for practicum as well.

This is provincial, plus the federal gives the province money, and the province actually assigns the funding to universities or colleges that have nursing programs. Do you think, again, this will be a good model to follow, Mr. Shan?

[Neethan Shan]

I think all of the suggestions are good. It has to be looked at in context for me to say it's a good idea. What is it replacing and how is it being replaced is the question, right?

If you're having language specific to the professions, that's good. But is it combined with the examination for those professions' certification based on that particular thing? Sometimes the English language proficiency exam has nothing to do with what's being used in that particular field. Corresponding advocacy is necessary so that if this is the training that's happening, the employers are actually accepting that as adequate training for it, right? So adding all these programs has to be a good idea, a positive idea. It has to be coupled with changes in employers and changes in hiring practices, and so on.

Definitely a lot of things like this are happening through HealthForceOntario in Ontario as well. The pre-landing is the same thing. You can only do a certain kind of settlement before they come because you cannot prepare everything ahead of time, right? So if locating services in India and the Philippines and so on is being done at the expense of immigration settlement services here, then it becomes a problem, because a lot of settlement needs to be supported here as a lot of people come.

So I think contextually it's right, it's a good thing to do, but we have to look at it beyond.