Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 4th, 2010

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Our reforms provide for an increase in appeals on behalf of the minister's representatives before the Refugee Appeal Division, and potentially before the Federal Court. There will be additional resources for greater legal action in specific cases.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

If I understand you correctly, even the minister in some cases could appeal a refugee request that has been granted, to have it overturned.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We are adding resources so that government lawyers can make interventions with the decision-makers at the Refugee Appeal Division and Federal Court. If there are significant cases, with long-term consequences for refugee policies—

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

There are provisions, therefore, for the minister to file appeals. That is because you might think that, in certain cases, it might be appropriate for the minister to appeal a decision.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That is something we already do. Sometimes, we ask the Federal Court to review IRB decisions, but—

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I am trying to understand why, in general, you think the minister should have the right to appeal certain decisions, but you are withdrawing that right in cases of people who would come from designated safe countries of origin. Would it not be more relevant, on the contrary, because, as you claim, people who come from those countries are less likely to be actual refugees? Why are you removing the power to appeal a favourable decision?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

First of all,

we don't take away

a right of appeal that exists in the current system for claimants from designated safe countries of origin, because they will still have access to the Federal Court. That is the case today, and that is over and above our obligations under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but—

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I am referring to the Refugee Appeal Division.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Let us talk about that! Mr. Chair, I must point out that a number of Western European countries, including France, Germany and Ireland, have adopted measures to speed up the processing of refugee claims from such countries, and—

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Minister, you have had the opportunity to present your arguments. I am simply trying to understand the logic behind all this. Obviously, refugee advocates want refugees to have the right to appeal. That is one thing. You have included provisions so that you, the minister, can file appeals to the Refugee Appeal Division. If you added that provision, it is because you foresaw cases where that might be relevant. Why does that provision not extend to the safe countries? You are preventing yourself from appealing favourable decisions concerning people from designated safe countries of origin, when you yourself have said that they are most likely not actual refugees. That is a contradiction.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

There is nothing in the reform that removes such a right of appeal, because that right simply does not exist. We are adding another legal process for the vast majority of refugee claimants, with the exception of people from countries where most cases—I am talking about 90%—are dismissed by the IRB.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

If a person from one of those countries is accepted, does the bill allow you to appeal that decision?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Refugees from designated safe countries of origin whose cases are dismissed—

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

If they are accepted—

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

— will not—

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

— will you be able to appeal?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We have to have one person speaking at a time.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

They will have the right to appeal to the Federal Court, but not to the Refugee Appeal Division.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I am asking if you, the minister, may appeal to the Refugee Appeal Division if someone is accepted?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Morton, from our legal services, might provide you with a more satisfactory answer.

[Luke Morton, Senior Legal Counsel, Manager, Refugee Legal Team, Legal Services, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

I would just reiterate what the minister has said. The authority is there, as it is today, that the government can seek a judicial review.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

It is a simple question. Let us suppose that someone is accepted at the first level. Can the minister challenge the decision before the Refugee Appeal Division? I am not asking you for a philosophical opinion, I am asking you about a provision in the bill. Is that permitted or not?

[Luke Morton]

Yes, the minister can appeal.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

In the case of a person from a designated country?

[Luke Morton]

No. I'm sorry.