Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 31st, 2010

[Peter Hill]

Thank you.

You're referring to the 2008 report from the Auditor General.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

That's right.

[Peter Hill]

Indeed, this proposal would provide sufficient funds for the system that had been identified as lacking previously--the national case management system--in order to manage the cases consistently nationally as well as to track the cost of removals cases. So the short answer is yes, this proposal would address that requirement.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

How long will it take, once you have the funds, to ramp up, get the IT system in place? Because it's notoriously hard to find a good one, and sometimes it can be a money pit, as we've seen in other departments--eHealth in Ontario, and there are other examples. How long would it take for you to get the system that would meet your expectations, for example?

[Peter Hill]

We're not starting from scratch. We have done what we have been able to do in terms of building a better system with available resources, so in the last couple of years we have taken steps to incrementally build our capacity. The projections for the funding here are over five years. It's difficult for me to say when that system would be fully mature, but I would anticipate within the three to five-year timeframe, and even before that, we would have improvements with our system's capacity, our information management capacity, that would allow us to meet the requirements of the new system.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Right now, I know you don't really track--maybe you do--who is detained, and whether they are men, women, or children, and if some are Canadian, some are not, especially the children, and how many are detained, how many are removed. Do you actually track those numbers? Because I recall I asked a specific question as to how many Canadian-born children are in fact detained and subsequently removed, and the information I got back was that CBSA does not track that information. Am I wrong on that?

[Peter Hill]

Do we track the number of Canadian-born children in detention centres?

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Yes, and then subsequently removed--per year, let's say.

[Peter Hill]

I don't think the number would be very high. Perhaps I could turn to my colleague and he may have some new information.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you.

[Reg Williams, Director, Inland Immigration Enforcement, Greater Toronto Area Region, Canada Border Services Agency]

Canadian citizens are never removed. They always accompany the person who is subject to removal.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Right, yes.

[Reg Williams]

We do in fact track the number of Canadian citizen children who accompany the foreign nationals in detention. That figure is relatively easy to get.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Ballpark figure, how many are there? Would you know, by chance?

[Reg Williams]

At this time, in our detention centre in Toronto, we probably have about six or seven, and these are all at the request of the custodial parent who wants the child to be with the mother or the father, as the case may be--

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

At one time.

[Reg Williams]

At the detention centre, yes.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

So how many, perhaps, in a year?

[Reg Williams]

In a year I would say 50 to 60 different children, Canadian citizen children.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

And they would then be leaving because their parents are leaving.

[Reg Williams]

That's right. The choice is entirely up to the custodial parent to make that decision to take the child or leave the child with a relative or another parent if that parent is a citizen.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

If you have a faster program, in terms of turning over people so they don't stay as long, assuming they are not real refugees, would you be able to ask people to leave much faster?

[Peter Hill]

Based on....

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

More staff, more....

[Peter Hill]

Based on the planning, that's exactly one of the main objectives.