Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 6th, 2010

[Brenna MacNeil]

Just to reiterate and to be clear, there are two main parts of the broad strategy on regulating immigration representatives. Certainly Bill C-35 is the key element of that and is the subject of discussion here today. Just to reiterate, the public selection process is a complementary process and is part of the broader strategy. It's undertaken under current authorities. It's a separate process, but it is certainly a complementary process. As we've said, it's really to identify a governing body for immigration consultants. That is under existing authorities now, whether the bill goes forward or not.

I think I'd also like to mention that in addition to efforts to better regulate immigration consultants, we've certainly made additional efforts with respect to public awareness to warn people about fraud and the dangers of using unauthorized representatives. Service improvements have also been made to address the broader issue of whether people feel they need to use immigration representatives at all. Some of those service improvements Ms. Tapley spoke to in her opening remarks. They include movement towards e-applications and something called Visa Wizard, which will help applicants navigate the process, determine the best route for them to come, and respond to specific elements of the immigration process.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Please, could you also tell us something regarding the public selection process? What selection factors you are using to identify a body to govern immigration consultants and the way they are chosen.

[Brenna MacNeil]

I'll speak to that, as well.

The objective is really to identify the governing body that would act as the regulator of immigration consultants. That body would effectively regulate in the public interest, thereby enhancing public confidence in the immigration system as a whole and improving the integrity of the immigration system.

As has been mentioned, the first stage of the public selection process was to publish a notice of intent. Part of that was a request for public comment. We've received a significant amount of comment with respect to what the body should look like and what the selection factors should be. Those were factored into what were outlined as the selection factors that would work towards the elements of good governance, viability, competence, integrity, and accountability, which are the main factors highlighted as necessary in the body, moving forward.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Mr. Chair, do I have more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You do.

[Nina Grewal, Conservative, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

I will pass my time to Ms. Wong.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for coming and giving us details about the bill itself.

We have spent quite a bit of time on the regulation and the regulatory body. I have a question I'd like you to address. Would you be able to clarify the role of the federal government in protecting immigration applicants, who are consumers, at the federal level? I've been to quite a few round tables and town halls where the minister and I actually have had witnesses tell us their horror stories of how they've been cheated. Our committee has also heard many stories about that, and that's why the whole bill is here. Could you comment further on the consumer side?

[Brenna MacNeil]

Yes, I can certainly speak to the examples the department has seen of some of the elements of fraud or misconduct that have come forward.

Certainly the activities really cover a range, anything from overcharging clients to actually failing to provide the immigration services that were agreed to. They can get into manufacturing of false documentation, and then into even more serious offences, such as counselling misrepresentation--that is, counselling a client to basically lie to the government about their situation or story. The activities can even go as far as involvement in smuggling activities, or any way of finding a way into Canada for people, whether it's lawful or truthful or not.

So it's really a range of activities that this is really working to combat.

[Catrina Tapley]

If I could add, Mr. Chairman, I think a number of the improvements that we've made to our website, including the advisory in many different languages about unscrupulous consultants, is also helpful in protecting consumers or potential immigrants to Canada.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Do I have more time?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Yes, you have four more minutes.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Oh, okay.

Again, on the same theme, sometimes we have clients coming to us who say they are afraid to report because they are afraid it will have consequences. So how do we protect those who come forth to us, saying they have been cheated and therefore that these crooked consultants should be sued?

[Brenna MacNeil]

Well, they certainly should be going forward to the governing body. If the consultant or other representative is a member of a governing body, the individual should be going forward primarily to that governing body to make a complaint, and that complaint would be dealt with directly by the governing body.

With respect to activities that are contrary to the provisions of IRPA, certainly we are not seeking to go after those individuals. There would be no instance when we would be going after those individuals, unless they had contravened the act. For example, I mentioned that sometimes they are counselled to misrepresent themselves. So if they have in fact misrepresented themselves, there may be some consequences. If they've done something, that's when there may be consequences; but otherwise there would not be consequences for the individual.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

Well, we all understand some of the stories told about the fact that the process of application to the crooked consultants actually starts much earlier, in the person's own home country. So to what extent does the problem lie overseas, and what can we do domestically to address the problem?

[Sandra Harder]

It's true that given there are multiple points of access to the immigration system spread around the globe, it is challenging to address that international context. One of the expectations of this bill is that in closing the loophole around people who provide advice or offer to provide advice throughout the entire process, we'll be able, certainly, to extend the reach of the act.

I think the other important thing in terms of the international aspect is that while we obviously can't govern or police activities that take place internationally, there is an expectation that cutting off or severing some of those ties between the activities internationally and their domestic links will disrupt those networks and make their operations more difficult. As Ms. Tapley said in her opening remarks, the work at the level of the minister in terms of international alliances will be another important part of this.

[Alice Wong, Conservative, Richmond, BC]

I'll share the rest of my time with Mr. Dykstra.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have 30 seconds.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Very quickly, it's been mentioned here, and I would just ask you to clarify, that while the recommendation in the standing committee report was for a statutory body, the recommendation that's actually coming out of the report is to move in the direction that our piece of legislation, Bill C-35, is actually suggesting. Could I just get confirmation of that?

[Catrina Tapley]

It's certainly our belief that this legislation moves in the direction and the spirit of the committee's report.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, officials, for being here.

Taking us into the future, this exists. Does the legislation assume that an establishment that does this work is licensed, or is it only the practitioners who work for the establishment?

[Catrina Tapley]

The body itself is created, and I'll ask Ms. MacNeil or Ms. Ménard to chime in here, but the body itself is founded or based in regulation, that the members--

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

No, I understand that. I'm an immigration consultant, but I work for a company called XYZ Immigration Consultants. Is that company regulated, or are only the employees of the company?

[Brenna MacNeil]

It's the members who are regulated.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I ask that because I was on a regulatory body that was similar, about consumer protection. I am still hopeful this might have a grain of consumer protection in it. I am getting more doubtful.

When we regulated funeral directors in Ontario, we licensed funeral establishments and funeral directors, because we recognized that there was a huge loophole if you only establish licensing for the practitioner because that's the way people get around this. Was it considered?