Evidence of meeting #25 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultants.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Catrina Tapley  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Sandra Harder  Acting Director General, Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Brenna MacNeil  Director, Social Policy and Programs, Immigration Branch, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Elaine Ménard  Counsel, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Order.

Mr. Trudeau is seeking the floor and it's probably out of order, but, as you can see, it depends on my mood. We'll see what he has to say.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity. Indeed, we're just getting into a rhythm. Each committee has different patterns.

It's a simple motion for a request of information. It was highlighted to me that I probably didn't even need to bring forward a motion, but simply ask the government to produce this information. I figured it would be more formal to ask the committee to adopt a motion around the production of all copies of correspondence, both written and electronic, within the minister's department on the issue of including same-sex marriage protection and same-sex marriage rights in the most recent edition of the citizenship guide, and that this information be provided to the committee within ten days.

Just following up, and if I can even perhaps--

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

No, I'm not going to let you debate it. I let you make the motion. We have set a schedule for Bill C-35 that is before us. We have witnesses before us.

With due respect to you, we probably should have debated this when we were dealing with the subcommittee report. Accordingly, I think the committee has really decided that Bill C-35 will be debated and we will hear witnesses until November 3 and at that time the subcommittee will meet again. It will again be decided what our next plan of action will be.

My suggestion to you is to privately discuss that perhaps with the parliamentary secretary. You never know, he might be prepared to give you all that information. But at this point I believe we should be proceeding with these witnesses who are before us today.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

Is it then my understanding that members are not allowed to bring forward motions in this committee, perhaps not to be debated but at least be voted upon at any time?

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Oh, of course, you can bring motions. We're getting into an area, and we'll make it clear. I think I've expressed my view privately to Mr. Wrzesnewskyj. The practice of this committee, since I've been chair, at least, which is about two years, is that we normally hear government bills first, and Bill C-35 is before us. We are now proceeding with that.

Ms. Chow has a couple of motions, quite frankly, that I think have been on the books since March. It is possible, if we find there's a break in proceedings for whatever reason--that witnesses aren't available or if something unusual happens--that the matter could be disposed of at that time.

Otherwise, members could bring motions continually, and essentially the committee could be hijacked. I'm not suggesting you're trying to hijack the meeting; I didn't mean it like that, but that could be the gist of it.

My suggestion is that you speak to Mr. Wrzesnewskyj. I would suggest that if your motion or any other motions wish to be debated--Ms. Chow, for example--we will have an opportunity, after we have concluded our deliberations on Bill C-35, to dispose of your motion and any other motions, or whatever else we want to talk about.

We have a private member's bill that's before us. It's up to the committee when we're going to deal with that. We have a study on wait times that we're right in the middle of somewhere. I have no idea when the committee wants to deal with that. We have Ms. Chow's motions. If the practice of the committee is normally followed, you follow all that. But anything's possible.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

My concern on this--

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON

Are you asking for clarification, or are we getting into a debate? The chair has made a ruling and now we're getting into questions.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Okay. Thank you very much.

Point of order, Mr. Oliphant.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

I have a point of order as well. I'm just trying to understand the order of business, and it's very much a point of privilege to say that this committee could be hijacked by motions. I find that somewhat offensive--

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

You know what, sir, it was improper for me to say that, and I apologize for that. I'm simply saying this is the practice that's been followed. I certainly meant no offence to you or anyone else as to someone hijacking the meeting. I didn't mean it like that.

I meant that we have a process we've been following, at least since I've been chair. Monsieur St-Cyr and Ms. Chow have been around longer than I have. They may be able to go even further back than that, but that's been the practice of this committee. If we wish to change it, we can have a debate some time, but at this point we have three witnesses.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

We can't have a debate, because we're not allowed to make a motion to have a debate. You have just ruled that there are no motions available, so if I wanted to move a motion that we have a debate on the rules, that would be out of order, according to what you just said, which is unparliamentary.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

We've concluded all this. We've concluded this discussion, and I'm now going to welcome....

Yes, Mr. Trudeau.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

Justin Trudeau Liberal Papineau, QC

Mr. Chair, I have a point of order.

I would like to call a vote on my motion.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I'm going to rule that in order. I will comment that this will mean that this debate on Bill C-35 will be delayed. But we will proceed with your motion. It appears to be in order.

Yes, Ms. Chow.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Are we still on item number one? Because the committee business was approved in camera.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

It was approved.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Do we need another motion to affirm that committee business?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

No.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

The committee business adopted a certain order, and now we want....

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Trudeau wants to change that.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

Right, but in camera we just approved it.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Yes. I agree with you. I pointed out to Mr. Trudeau that he had an opportunity to change that when we were in camera. He chose not to, and he has every right to do that, and I have held that his motion is in order.

3:45 p.m.

NDP

Olivia Chow NDP Trinity—Spadina, ON

It would still be under committee business, right?

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

No, he has a motion that he has essentially read to the committee.

Monsieur St-Cyr, do you have a point of order?

October 6th, 2010 / 3:45 p.m.

Bloc

Thierry St-Cyr Bloc Jeanne-Le Ber, QC

I would like to talk about the point of order, Mr. Chair.

In the past, there was consensus about referring a certain number of motions to the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure. However, I would like to remind you that those motions concerned the committee's work. We figured that it was pointless to adopt a slew of motions calling for the committee to examine a given subject as long as the motions never made their way onto our agenda. There was no point to it.

I feel that this particular motion is nothing like that. This is a substantive motion that is not about the committee's work. I agree with you in saying that any MP can request that the motion be put to a vote. However, though I support the motion, I'm not sure that this is the best time to debate it. We could perhaps set aside the last 10 minutes of this meeting or the first 10 minutes of the next one for that debate, instead of making our witnesses wait unnecessarily.