Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 18th, 2010

[Nigel Thomson]

I think that's a point that's been made in several complaints brought by individuals to this committee. CSIC is a regulator. We're not a member advocate organization. Our interests are in pursuing the public mandate through maintaining our programs and maintaining the regulation and control of our membership. CSIC's fees are sufficient to meet the needs of CSIC in carrying out its mandate—no more, no less. When everything is taken into consideration, including errors and omissions insurance, our fees are lower for immigration practice than the fees of some law societies in Canada, notably the Law Society of Upper Canada. This allows immigration consultants to derive exactly the same kind of income that a lawyer can derive in immigration practice.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

What are the fees a year, roughly, for CSIC?

[Nigel Thomson]

At the present time it's about $2,700, plus errors and omissions insurance.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

Errors and omissions insurance is about how much?

[Nigel Thomson]

It's about $220.

[Justin Trudeau, Liberal, Papineau, QC]

It's $200?

[Nigel Thomson]

Yes.

So our fees come in, in total.... As you may be aware, the current Law Society of Upper Canada errors and omissions insurance will run in the neighbourhood of $3,500 for a lawyer to practise in Ontario. So we believe that our fees are competitive, given the size of CSIC. Obviously it's been raised by this committee that the size of the membership of CSIC does obviously impact on fees. A regulator has to meet a minimum requirement in terms of education, complaints and discipline, discipline panels, registration, and ongoing operations, but it's hoped of course that with Bill C-35 our membership will grow in the future.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Thomson.

Monsieur St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I will keep my questions in the same vein. Regarding membership, in your report, you state that, in 2009, your organization had 1,700 members.

What would the actual figure be if all the consultants that are currently ghost agents were members of your organization?

[Patrice Brunet, Member, Board of Directors, Canadian Society of Immigration Consultants]

Thank you for the question, Mr. St-Cyr.

At this time, no one can determine how many ghost agents there are, be it in Canada or abroad.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Are we talking about double or triple the current member count? Or maybe 30% more?

[Patrice Brunet]

We don't have any statistics on this. However, as you know, under the contribution agreement the federal government concluded with CSIC in 2003, once membership in the organization totals 3,000, CSIC will pay off a $700,000 loan to the federal government.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

When do you think you will reach that number?

[Nigel Thomson]

That's an excellent question, Monsieur St-Cyr.

As one example, we had 130 individuals write the examination for membership in September. More than 100 passed, so the rate of growth has been exceeding our expectations.

To go back to your original question, CSIC has been tracking about 1,600 to 1,700 ghost agents. Our intelligence department has been tracking them and reporting to enforcement agencies.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

What percentage of the 1,700 current members are in Quebec?

[Patrice Brunet]

According to the latest figures available to us, we have just over 1,800 members. As our chair said earlier, we have several hundred students who are currently training to become immigration consultants...

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I just want to know what percentage of your members are in Quebec.

[Patrice Brunet]

Currently, we have 178 Quebec members.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

So, less than 10% of the total.

[Patrice Brunet]

Yes.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

How do you explain this?

[Patrice Brunet]

I'm glad you asked that.

As you know, Quebec is the only province in Canada to have its own immigration legislation.

Until recently, the Government of Quebec had not enacted immigration laws to appoint authorized representatives, as the federal government had done in 2004.

However, as you no doubt know, a few weeks ago, the provincial government announced that it would appoint CSIC members as representatives.

Once this information is made public—something that should happen in the next few days—we expect a significant increase in the percentage of members from Quebec.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

In that announcement, it can be noted that the Government of Quebec has also added new criteria to its regulations. Among those criteria are a French test, a test on features specific to the Quebec immigration system and a bi-annual exam.

Why were you not able to provide those services to the Government of Quebec? Why does it have to handle matters itself?

[Patrice Brunet]

I don't think that we were unable to provide those services to the Quebec government. I don't really understand your question.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Once consultants practising in the rest of Canada have become members of CSIC, they are considered to be qualified, and their competencies are assumed to have been tested. Obviously, the Government of Quebec finds that being a member of the CSIC is not enough for practising in Quebec, since it also requires individuals to pass a Quebec-specific exam and to be tested on the proficiency of their French.

Why did the Quebec government not ask you to carry out the testing? Have you held discussions with the Government of Quebec?