Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 27th, 2010

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

When you're designing courses, do members, notaries, or lawyers in Quebec take courses from the institute?

[Selin Deravedisyan-Adam]

The difference is that the Institute is not officially a training body. It is there to protect the public, to help consultants, specialists, be they lawyers, notaries, members of the Barreau du Québec or simply certified immigration consultants, get access to various training sessions, but also to participate in events. We are also involved in working round tables with the various immigration authorities. Even lawyers are involved in those round tables.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Perfect.

Mr. Tencer, you gave a passionate defence of CSIC, and even though we are not going to be choosing it, as members of Parliament we have heard many concerns about CSIC from members. We have heard concerns about the high cost of the dues to join and the high cost of educational materials. We've heard about the problem of not having enough services in French. We've heard about some governance issues.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're way over, sir. Maybe you could wind up your question.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Are there no problems in CSIC?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

That question is to you, Mr. Tencer.

[Joel E. Tencer]

I didn't realize that. Thank you.

With any organization that has close to 2,000 members--we have approximately 1,850--one or more people will have some complaints. Not everybody will be happy with everything. You can't satisfy all of the people all of the time, to use an old expression.

I know that every professional organization requires money to operate. Whether its members are doctors, engineers, or lawyers, you have membership costs. If I recall correctly, there was a chart sent out to all of our members comparing our membership fees--

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We have to move on, sir.

Madame Beaudin, you have the floor.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, everyone.

My questions are going to be for you, Ms. Deravedisyan-Adam, so I can be quite sure I understand what you have said. First, you must know, since you are in the field, that there are consultants, people who call themselves experts in the field; there must be crooked consultants.

[Selin Deravedisyan-Adam]

Yes.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I would like to understand what you're saying. You are familiar with the new regulations in Quebec. Do you think they are sufficient to resolve this situation?

[Selin Deravedisyan-Adam]

There are a lot of changes in Quebec. Everyone who can work directly with the ministère de l'Immigration et des Communautés culturelles is going to have to make a mandatory declaration when they fill out the forms. There is a parallel with Bill C-35. I didn't come here just to criticize. The positive point is that anyone who advises another person will have to be a member in good standing of an organization. Quebec has already focused on this, and at its site we can see today that it does indeed talk about members in good standing of the CSIC. That is a positive point.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Do you think there might be duplication between the federal government and the provinces, in terms of legislation?

[Selin Deravedisyan-Adam]

Those are more political issues. In fact, it is going to be very complementary. Don't forget that Quebec has the unique feature of having its own immigration programs and there are many very worthwhile programs. As a result, a lot of people use Quebec as an access route. So it is entirely to be expected that this province would want to control the flow of applications submitted to it.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Several of us have mentioned the power given to the minister under this bill. In 2008, this committee made some recommendations. In the June 2008 report, it recommended that a new organization be created under a separate statute. Under Bill C-35, the organization would be under the direct authority of the minister. Don't you think that would give him too much power?

[Selin Deravedisyan-Adam]

You're talking about Quebec, or the federal government?

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

The federal minister, under Bill C-35.

[Selin Deravedisyan-Adam]

I'm going to be more direct. I may be speaking for the CSIC today, but if it were another organization, I would be defending those interests just as zealously. The circumstances mean that we're talking about the CSIC here. My goal is to explain, to the minister or to someone else, there is no point in wiping it all out and starting over at zero, given the money and energy that have been invested in it.

Mr. Oliphant referred earlier to subsidies. We must not forget that the CSIC does not receive any subsidies, from the government or otherwise. We have done it all by the sweat of our brows. It's the work we have done that has enabled us to cover the infamous membership fees. Even if the minister has the power to make changes, starting over at zero would put us back in exactly the same situation.

I am also a business start-up specialist. I compared a business to a human being. Whether it be a non-profit or organization or a for-profit organization, the stages are exactly the same: early childhood, adolescence, adulthood and old age. Before you get to the wisdom and maturity of old age, it takes a lot of years and mutual support among people.

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I agree with you when you talk about honest consultants, but you yourself say that some are dishonest. The only issue here is rebuilding a structure.

[Selin Deravedisyan-Adam]

But those people don't belong to that structure. This is what I really want to stress. They have to be either banned altogether or integrated officially, but dismantling the structure serves no purpose. It's like having a bad hand of cards, and trying to shuffle the cards and start a new game. That doesn't mean you'll get a hand with four aces. Do you understand?

[Josée Beaudin, Bloc, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you.

I have no further questions, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Beaudin.

Mr. Rafferty.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Tencer and Ms. Adam.

You've both waxed very poetic about CSIC and its activities. I talked a little earlier today about the re-establishment of CSIC. Am I to gather that both of you feel that with the right amount of evolutionary time this will be a fine organization or even a fabulous organization?

[Selin Deravedisyan-Adam]

It will soon be a fabulous organization.

[John Rafferty, NDP, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

It will soon be...?