Evidence of meeting #44 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Claudette Deschênes  Assistant Deputy Minister, Operations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Neil Yeates  Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Mark G. Watters  Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

This is the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), we are dealing with supplementary estimates (C) 2010-2011: votes 5c, 7c, and 10c under CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION, referred to the committee on Tuesday, February 8, 2011. And secondly, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we are studying the immigration settlement and adaptation program.

Committee members, we decided to put these two together so the minister could speak on both at the beginning, as opposed to dividing the meeting up.

We have with us the Honourable Jason Kenney, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism, who is here this morning with his staff, who most of us know, who have been here before. I'll let him introduce them if he sees fit, if they will be speaking.

Minister, good morning to you. If you could address the committee, we would appreciate that.

8:45 a.m.

Calgary Southeast Alberta

Conservative

Jason Kenney ConservativeMinister of Citizenship

Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am pleased to be here today to present to the committee my department's Supplementary Estimates (C) for fiscal year 2010-2011.

I believe you know all of the senior officials who are here with me today.

Mr. Chairman, in 2010 Canada welcomed the highest number of immigrants in 57 years—281,000 permanent residents. We did so by focusing on economic immigrants who can work, invest, create wealth, and contribute to our prosperity.

Within the economic category, we will continue to balance admissions between federal skilled workers, who are now doing increasingly well financially according to some recent research we've done, and provincial nominees, who are helping to fill labour market gaps, while ensuring a better distribution of newcomers across Canada.

In the future we must select those immigrants who are most likely to succeed in the Canadian economy. To this end, today we are launching cross-country and online consultations on proposed changes to the federal skilled worker points system. We want advice from the public and indeed from you parliamentarians on how we can improve the points grid as a way of selecting those workers who will best integrate and contribute to our prosperity.

We also want to select those immigrants who are most likely to succeed in the Canadian economy. To this end, today we are launching cross-country and online consultations, seeking advice from the public—and indeed from parliamentarians—on proposed changes to the Federal Skilled Worker points system.

While we welcomed more economic immigrants last year, we also upheld our commitment to family reunification and to refugees. We will continue to do so in the future.

In 2011 we plan to receive even more newcomers through family reunification and more refugees than we did last year. I repeat, in 2011 we plan to receive more family class immigrants than we did in 2010. That's not a cut in family class, as some have inaccurately suggested; rather, it's an increase.

Within the family class we've opted to put wives, husbands, and children first. That reflects the priority of immigrants, of Canadians, and indeed of the Immigration Act. Therefore, we have slightly decreased the projected admissions range for parents and grandparents in order to allow for an increase in the number of spouses and children admitted this year. That means more dads, more moms, and more kids being reunited with their loved ones than in the past. That's, after all, the whole idea behind our policy of family reunification, which I believe is the most generous in the world among immigrant-receiving countries.

In the past few days there have been a number of myths and mistruths recklessly thrown around on the issue of family class immigration, so I'd like to give this committee the facts and some broader perspective on just how generous Canada's immigration policy is to families.

We've distributed to you, I believe, some charts and tables. This table that you have in front of you shows.... There are two primary categories of family class immigrants. One is called family class one. This is the highest priority under the Immigration Act. They are spouses and dependent children.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Minister, by chance, do you have hard copies of these things?

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

They are supposed to be distributed, so we'll get those to you.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Committee members don't seem to have them. We may have to squint a bit to see what you're doing.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

All right....

8:50 a.m.

A voice

They are coming.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

Well, Chair, consider this is a visual aid to what would otherwise be a boring recitation of numbers.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Oh, sir, just keep doing the great work you're doing, but if your staff does find them, it would be nice if we could have them.

Thank you very much.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

All right. They're being distributed.

The key thing here is the planning range. We use it every year to plan, and publish it in our annual report to Parliament. Family class one, spouses and children, was last year between 42,000 and 45,000. We actually landed a little under 44,000.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Minister, I wonder if you could pause just for a moment.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

Sure. Not a problem.

8:50 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

I'm going to suspend for a minute.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Minister, thank you for allowing us to pause to get these distributed. It's just easier for the members to understand.

I'm going to ask you to start again--not your whole presentation, but just this chart.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

Sure.

Mr. Chairman, the table simply shows you the two main categories of family class: family class one, spouses and dependent children; and family class four, parents and grandparents.

It shows you that the planning range last year for family class one, spouses and children, was between 42,000 and 45,000. We actually estimate to have landed just under 44,000.

This year we are increasing--repeat, increasing--the planning range for spouses and children, the priority category, to between 45,500 and 48,000.

Now, in order to accommodate that increase in spouses and children, we've had to have a modest reduction in the lower-priority category under the act, which is category FC4, parents and grandparents. Last year the planning range was 15,000 to 18,000, and this year the planning range is 13,000 to 17,500.

So in terms of the total family class that we're projecting this year in our planning range, last year it was between 57,000 and 63,000, and this year it's between 58,500 and 65,500.

This chart gives you a perspective on the two different categories. Green represents spouses and children; blue represents parents and grandparents. What you can see here is that we always have many more spouses and children than parents and grandparents, and the numbers are about consistent.

You'll also notice that our planning range, if we come in midway between our planning range this year, will actually exceed the average over the past decade in terms of family class. Most importantly, it will be going up, as you can see, from 2010 to 2011.

There's another element here that I think a lot of people lose track of. While we bring in people through these two categories, in fact the majority of people who arrive in Canada in a given year, under the economic categories, are actually not primary economic immigrants who we assessed according to their human capital, under the federal skilled worker program, the Canadian experience class, provincial nominee,

and the Quebec Skilled Worker Program, but rather dependants, that is spouses and children of primary immigrants.

They are primary immigrants. Here you will see families as a percentage of total immigrant admissions. The green bar represents primary immigrants. These are typically heads of households, typically primary economic immigrants. In some cases it might be a successful asylum claimant who has family members attached to his application. The purple bars represent family members. As you can see, the ratio is about two to one. On average, 65% of immigrants coming to Canada are actually family members.

It is kind of extraordinary if you see it in proportion. You'll see that the numbers are pretty consistent over the past 17 years.

Here you will see the same thing expressed in terms of absolute numbers. Last year, 2010, was the largest number for intake of immigrants in 57 years, overall, at 281,000, of whom 180,000 were family members, either family class or arriving with the primary immigrants who represented 101,000. You can see that, in fact, last year was the largest intake for family members of our immigration system in 30 years.

Finally, you can see here family members immigrating to Canada by year. You will see again that in 2010 we have the largest number of family members coming to Canada—here it shows you since 1993, but in fact it is in the past 30 years. The point here is that there are a lot of immigration policy experts criticizing Canada, saying that we don't put enough weight on human capital, on potential workers, taxpayers, and some people say there is too much emphasis on family. When I hear some critics say that we are actually cutting and slashing the family class, instead of falling for that kind of demagoguery we need to actually look at the numbers and put all of this in perspective.

The second issue I'd like to briefly address, Mr. Chairman, relates to settlement funding. We believe it's important to invest in the success of newcomers, so they can realize their potential. That's why our government, when it came to office, cut the right of landing fee in half. That has saved nearly $2,000 for the average family of four with two children over the age of 18. It has saved more than $300 million for immigrant families since 2006.

In addition, when we came to office we decided to triple the federal investment in settlement services, and over the past five years that represents an incremental investment of $1.4 billion that were not being invested in things like free language classes and other settlement services.

We have to make sure that those funds are going to where the immigrants are. Immigrant patterns change. Settlement patterns change. In fact, what we see is, for example, fewer immigrants going to Ontario—Toronto in particular—and more going to the prairie provinces and the Atlantic provinces. We have developed, in consultation with the provinces, a new settlement funding allocation formula based on objective criteria to ensure that all newcomers across Canada benefit from similar levels of service.

This has meant reducing funding levels in three provinces while increasing them in seven provinces and the three territories. For example, we have seen funding for Ontario more than triple since 2005, from $111 million to $390 million, while at the same time, the number of newcomers choosing to live in Ontario has fallen by 24% from 141,000 to 106,000. That is more and more money for fewer and fewer immigrants. On the flip side, Saskatchewan has seen more than a tripling of the number of immigrants and the settlement funding increases have not been able to keep pace. What we have is a new formula that will seek to equalize things over the next couple of years. It will result in increased settlement funding for Newfoundland and Labrador, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta, Yukon, Northwest Territories, and Nunavut, and Quebec will also have an increase under its own accord and the automatic escalator within it.

This new formula will equalize funding at about $3,000 per immigrant, whereas in Ontario immigrants are now receiving about $3,500 per immigrant, as opposed to say $2,900 per immigrant in Saskatchewan. That's just not fair. We need fairness in settlement funding. That's why we've made these changes.

Some would say, well, why not just increase the overall budget to equalize the funding rather than reallocating it away from the overfunded areas? There are three very simple reasons. First, we've already increased the settlement budget by 300%. Second, this funding increase has not been matched by uptake in the number of clients; I saw one estimate that says there's been an increase of about 31%, notwithstanding a funding increase of 300%. And third, that would be an unjustifiable expense of, I estimate, something in the range of an additional $50 million tax dollars annually. That's money that we quite frankly don't have, and that we certainly can't reallocate from within our department. It would mean cutting immigration levels by reprofiling money from our aid base, which deals with actual immigration processing.

Now, even within Ontario there have been changes in settlement patterns. There are fewer newcomers arriving in Toronto, with a lot more going to York region, for example. So Toronto will get a relatively modest reduction in funding and York will get a huge increase in settlement funding, in the range of 43%.

I would make one last point, Mr. Chairman. There's been some coverage about some of the settlement provider organizations with whom we will not be continuing our contribution agreements.

We did a request for proposals. We received hundreds of proposals. We assessed them. Our public servants assessed them objectively. We also looked at past performance and efficiency.

We looked at, as you can see on these maps.... On the left, just there, it shows the number of settlement provider organizations in Toronto proper in about 2005. Here, on the right, are the settlement provider organizations located in Toronto this year, after these reallocations are done. You can see, then, how much more coverage there is. And in point of fact, there is some duplication. We don't want to waste tax dollars with duplication, so there has to be some rationalization.

Having said that, of the approximately 250 organizations that we've been funding, over 80% will continue in Ontario to receive the contribution agreement as partners with us. About 37 we have not continued because they just didn't meet the objectives, but there will be 30 new settlement provider organizations with whom we partner. They represent innovation and new ideas, which we think is a positive thing.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Mr. Minister--

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

I'll conclude with that, Mr. Chair.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

No, no, Mr. Minister....

I'm sorry. I normally don't interrupt. I'm just curious about these two diagrams that you have. Is there any significance to the colours? Does it mean anything? Or does it just happen to be different colours?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

They're different programs. Some might be language, and.... I'll get the code for you before we're done here.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

It may not be relevant to your presentation. It's just that some of the members were asking what the colours meant.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

Sorry.

Essentially, the green is.... They represent a mix of different programs.

One of the things we're trying to do--this is a good point--is to bring more programs together in the same place. We're working on something called “local immigration partnerships”, or LIPs, where we work with the municipalities, and big groups like the United Way, and try to get better coordination. So instead of having dozens of micro-organizations providing services in their own little silos, we're trying to have a more rational approach to services in a particular neighbourhood, in a particular region.

The bottom line is simply this: after these changes are all said and done, there will be only a slight reduction in the number of service provider organizations in Toronto, and there will be no service gaps. Folks who come to Canada need free language training. They need some advice on how to get integrated. All of those services will be available. I would argue, and I believe our department believes, that they'll be actually more efficiently allocated, both within Toronto proper and across the broader GTA and Ontario, and certainly on a national level.

So I think actually the settlement changes are good news.

We certainly look forward to any questions you may have.

Merci beaucoup.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Tilson

Thank you, Mr. Minister. I'm sure there will be some questions.

Mr. Oliphant has some questions.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for coming.

I have a couple of questions, some on the numbers and some on the tone. I want to go to the tone first, and the concern I have from comments that you made on CBC on Monday. It wasn't Radio-Canada, so we know this is the truth.

You said that “there is no right or guarantee that they will be able to bring all members of their extended family”, when you were referring to family class reunification.

I think my concern is that this is feeding a myth that's out there.... It's not us who are feeding myths, it's actually the government side. There is some sense out there that someone thinks all members of extended families can be sponsored.

Could you just clarify for everyone who can come in as family class?

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

Jason Kenney Conservative Calgary Southeast, AB

As I said in my presentation, when a primary economic immigrant arrives they can bring their spouse and their dependent children, as part of their application. Subsequent to that, if they get married or there's a spouse or dependent children still overseas, they can sponsor them under what's called family class one, FC1, or they can seek to sponsor parents or grandparents. Of course, for each of these categories there are various legal parameters in terms of medical--

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON

But people can't sponsor cousins or uncles or aunts or great-grandparents or siblings or adult children.