Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 17th, 2011

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

As I look at the targets that we've received for 2011 and compare them to the numbers you've released on 2010, it appears to me that all categories of economic immigrants will be down by about 6% or 7%.

You say you're rebalancing. I go through the federal skilled workers program, and I go through the requests that I'm reading from economic development officials in Calgary—your own city—and they are very worried that economic immigration is actually going to be down over real numbers.

I'm not talking about targets, because you have targets and you have ranges, and they're a little different. The reality is, as I read the numbers and keep going through this document, that they appear to be, as I add them up, in Canada, maybe—but that's zero percent in one category—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have less than a minute, Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

What is the reality of economic immigration? It appears to be 7%. I got my calculator out last night trying to figure this out.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

What I've told you all day is that the family class—which includes FC1 plus FC4—planning range is going up from 2010 to 2011; the number of provincial nominees is going up—you can see all of this in our annual report, which we published, on page 13 of the annual report; the number of Quebec skilled workers is going up; the number of federal skilled workers will go down slightly.

That's because last year we had such a huge number. We can't permanently maintain the number we hit last year—281,000, the second-highest number in nine decades. As I indicated, that was a special increment to help draw down on the federal skilled worker backlog as part of our action plan for faster immigration.

But we are accommodating provincial demands for increased provincial nominees, we are accommodating Quebec's request for additional skilled workers, we are increasing the number of resettled refugees by 20% over three years, we are increasing family class from last year to this year, and overall our target is consistent. Our operational range is 240,000 to 265,000. It's consistent with what we've been planning for the past six or seven years.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you. I'm sorry. We're over again. We're always over.

Monsieur St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Some of the votes that you and your colleagues have requested are meant to cover the additional costs associated with the arrival of a large number of migrants on board the vessel MV Sun Sea. CIC has requested an additional $908,000 and Foreign Affairs, $695,000, while PCO, National Defence and others have also asked for more funding. In all, you estimate that an additional $35 million has been requested.

You maintain in your forecast that Bill C-49 will solve the problem. That opinion is not shared by the opposition. Do you include in your estimates the new costs associated with Bill C-49, including detention costs which will be very high? I understand that these are itemized in Supplementary Estimates (C), but I imagine that you already have an idea of what you will need for the coming year. Have you evaluated the costs associated with detaining all of these people?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

No, because most of these related costs would fall to the Department of Public Safety, not to CIC. Therefore, there are no projected costs associated with Bill C-49 in Supplementary Estimates (C) and we do not anticipate any changes on that score.

Would you care to add anything further, Mark?

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I understand that some of the costs fall to the Department of Public Safety and that if the bill was adopted, although I don't see how that is possible, it would be during the next fiscal year. However, for this year, we have votes...

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

A point of order: just a question. I'm happy that Mr. St-Cyr is asking about Bill C-49. I just want to make sure that we'll be given that same opportunity.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Stop the clock for a minute here.

I'm giving you the same caution as I gave Mr. Shory, I think it was. Bill C-49 is somewhere else. It's not in this committee. I will just repeat, it's true we can ask almost anything with estimates, but you're getting into political questions, which are probably more appropriate in a legislative committee.

Go ahead, sir.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I would like to remind the chair that today's meeting is on the estimates tabled by the department and that in these estimates, there are headings listing the additional costs associated with the arrival of a large number of migrants on board the MV Sun Sea. As I see it, the issue ties in perfectly with the topic of the meeting.

I understand that these are hypothetical expenditures for next year, but you include in this year's estimates expenditures associated with the arrival of the MV Sun Sea. As parliamentarians, we would like to compare the costs incurred with the projected costs, since you are planning to ask Parliament to vote on this matter.

Have you asked your colleagues at Public Safety Canada to evaluate the cost of detaining all of these individuals? If you have not, could you put the question to them and come back to us with a figure?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Watters.

[Mark G. Watters, Assistant Deputy Minister, Chief Financial Officer, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Supplementary Estimates (C) do not contain a request of any kind associated with the arrival of the vessel or with Bill C-49. As you pointed out, Mr. St-Cyr, that will happen next year, when the bill is adopted. Any costs already incurred have been incurred primarily by one federal government department, namely Public Safety Canada, not CIC. The minister has undertaken to inform the committee within the next few weeks of the costs related to the arrival of this vessel.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

I cannot find the exact heading in CIC's estimates, but I did note that a figure of $908,000 had been entered. What does that represent for CIC?

[Mark G. Watters]

There is nothing in Supplementary Estimates (C) for the costs associated with this boat's arrival. We have not requested any funds this year for that purpose.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

So then, the funds for immigration are already included in this year's general operating budget.

[Mark G. Watters]

Yes.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

So then, Public Safety Canada is the department requesting additional funds.

[Mark G. Watters]

Yes.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Of the $35 million figure quoted by the minister in a letter, how much of that is for additional, non-budgeted real costs and how much for costs already included in the general budget?

[Mark G. Watters]

Again, Mr. Chair, we're talking about costs incurred by Public Safety Canada. I cannot comment on those costs.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Then I'll put to the question to the minister...

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm sorry. Time has expired.

Ms. Davies.

[Libby Davies, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

This is the final word, and then we're going to have to have a vote on the estimates.