Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 3rd, 2011

[Jim Versteegh]

There are two reasons that we check on the provenance of funds for investors. One is to determine whether the applicant meets the definition of an investor, so we have to determine how they obtained their money and whether it was on the basis, again, of meeting the requirement of the definition of investor. That is done by Quebec; that's the eligibility decision.

The second reason we look at the source of funds is to determine whether or not they were obtained through criminal means. That is an admissibility factor, and, under our legislation, it remains the responsibility of the federal government to make that determination.

In reality, it is rare that detailed questioning would take place with a Quebec investor case, but we do, on occasion, do some background checking to ensure that there isn't fraud associated with how money was obtained. Since we deal with a very large number of federal investor cases as well, it's easier for us to identify patterns that may suggest fraudulent activity, so we certainly do a quick review to make sure there's no criminal activity associated, because Quebec has not been given responsibility to determine that admissibility factor. In reality, we invariably or almost always simply recognize the decision by Quebec to accept a case they have accepted as an investor.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Mr. Versteegh.

Good morning, Ms. Chow.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Good morning.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have up to five minutes.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Yes.

What is the quota for parents and grandparents for 2011, compared to 2010?

[Jim Versteegh]

In 2010 it was 1,375 visas and for 2011 it's 560.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

What would be your average processing time for parents for 2011, in your projection? Is it about five years?

[Jim Versteegh]

No, the average processing time for parents in 2010 was about 22 months. I expect those we complete in 2011, since we're still dealing with the same caseload, would be in that same range, but since we have more cases in process than we can visa this year, next year the processing times may indeed be a bit longer if we don't have a larger target.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

You can't project how much longer, then.

[Jim Versteegh]

That's very hard to say. It depends entirely on what our target is next year.

[Rénald Gilbert]

Maybe one thing I could add is that the majority of the cases that are going to be finalized this year are people who applied in 2008, so it cannot be five years, because they applied three years ago. We look at the age when people apply. It gives us a bit of an idea, but it's very difficult to predict a long time in advance what it would be. It evolves very slowly from one year to the next.

That said, the target for China overall has increased, because we essentially increased the target in Beijing a lot, as was mentioned in earlier discussion.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Thank you.

On the parents one, the suggestion from the Canadian Bar Association is that once they are ready to take the medical examination, you don't ask for a second one because it is through no fault of their own that they end up waiting a long time. Have you considered that possibility?

The question is for perhaps Mr. Gilbert.

[Rénald Gilbert]

I am not sure what you are referring to as a second medical examination.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

That is because the first one expires, and they have to get another one.

[Rénald Gilbert]

Jim can correct me, but in the vast majority of cases the first one does not expire, because we give the medical instructions at the end of the process, which means normally they don't expire. It doesn't mean that there will be no further medicals for, let's say, TB, that this will not happen. Ultimately we are responsible for the safety of Canadians, so if somebody has done their medical a long time ago, especially in an area where there is a significant occurrence of TB, we have to be careful.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I think the suggestion was to do it close to the beginning, so that it gets done, but you haven't considered that--

[Rénald Gilbert]

If we did it at the beginning, we would have to do it a second time at the cost of the client, and with no use for it really.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

I will come to the issue of spouses. Your rejection rate two years ago was something like 52% or 56%. This year it has gone up. What percentage is it? You say you have serious fraud concerns with 60% of your movement. What is your final rejection rate? Is it probably 60% or 70% or so for Hong Kong?

[Jim Versteegh]

Actually, the refusal rate is going down. In 2010 it was 47%, and we expect it will slowly continue to go down.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Okay. It was 52% or something like that.

[Jim Versteegh]

It has been higher in the last two years, but because we have been very vigilant, we are now receiving fewer applications in that category. It's not the legitimate cases who are no longer applying; it's the ones who now understand it is more difficult to fool us.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Chow.

Mr. Shory and Dr. Wong, you have a total of five minutes.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Good morning, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for staying awake a little late to help us.

I'll come straight to the question. It seems that Hong Kong has quite a number of investor category applications. In the opening comments I heard that there were almost 9,000 applications before the moratorium started, and the numbers dropped after December 1. Also, I heard that Hong Kong still expects that the growth could come back to the original number.

From December to today, March 3, do you see any numbers coming back to the normal trend before June 2010?

[Jim Versteegh]

Frankly, I'd be very surprised if they went back up to the numbers of the first half of 2010. As I mentioned, we're now averaging about 300 a month. There may be further increases, but I really don't believe that they will get out of hand the way that they were before the moratorium. Indications are that we will likely stay at about that level, but of course it depends to a certain degree on the degree of dissatisfaction in China. If there were to be some kind of disruption and people were more inclined to leave, or if there were greater activity on the part of consultants in China to advertise the program, it is conceivable that there would be a further increase, but we would be very surprised if it went back up to the pre-December 1 levels.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Is it correct to assume that with the recent increase in requirements in this category, the processing time should be reduced in coming days if the intake stays at a manageable number of basically 300 or so per month?