Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 30th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Yes, and if you could get them in order, that would be good too, but they don't have to be in order. If you don't have it, we can make that a fourth undertaking.

[Claudette Deschênes]

I may not give them in order, but I'll give you the top five. For spouses, partners, and children in 2009, with 80% of applications finalized, the top five were, at 21 months, Accra; 29 months, Nairobi; 21 months, Guatemala; 19 months, Port-au-Prince; and 19 months, Kiev.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I think that's five.

Thank you.

Monsieur Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I hope that it has been speeded up in Port-au-Prince now. It was 19 months.

[Claudette Deschênes]

It's coming along.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Don't tell me that, we will be inviting you back.

[Claudette Deschênes]

In that case, it's not coming.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Earlier, you opened a door for me. There is a reality with regard to temporary visas. When a mother wants to be there when her daughter has a baby, because the daughter needs help, the mother may have trouble obtaining a temporary visa. Quite often, people will say that she will want to stay here.

For the benefit of those listening—and tens of thousands are listening to us today—I would like you to give us a rule to go by. Unfortunately, all too often with regard to visa applications, the answer is not "yes, but", but rather "no, but". In other words, getting a visa is almost the exception to the rule. That is my first question.

My second question concerns seniors. I think that in an aging society, the seniors issue becomes extremely relevant. Earlier, you said that we could give a visa to seniors. Unfortunately, there is a political reality tied to health. You know that, in some provinces, if a person comes here, it may entail costs. The older one is, the greater the risk of getting sick, the greater the risk of the province and the country clawing back funds even if there is insurance. It may not be politically correct to ask this question, but are there levels of tolerance? Do you pay more attention to various aspects? For example, an individual of a certain age compared to another might be more difficult to let in. Is there age-based profiling?

In my opinion, these are two issues we should examine closely.

[Claudette Deschênes]

I will answer the first question. However, I am not sure that I will be able to answer your second. I might ask Rénald Gilbert, our general director for the international region to answer that question.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

We know Mr. Gilbert well.

[Claudette Deschênes]

With regard to the first question, here is what I mentioned. Once a sponsorship application has been made, in Mississauga, for example, we consider issuing multiple entry visas for parents and grandparents.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

These people could do what we call an ''in land''.

[Claudette Deschenes]

Exactly. We know that these people will perhaps want to settle here permanently, but they are applying in a system where there is a waiting period. If there is no sponsorship or if the family in Canada is not in a position to sponsor that individual, then it becomes a matter of good faith. Do we believe that the individual wants to come here temporarily and will that person want to then go home?

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

So, people are at the mercy of the immigration officer who meets with that person.

[Claudette Deschênes]

It is done on a case-by-case basis. The officer will make a decision.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

However, it remains arbitrary. People are human, as they say. It is in such cases that abuses or fraud can occur. So there needs to be a system.

There are two realities. The first is someone who wants to come and who will do anything to come. The second is an individual who sees the potential for fraud and who may blackmail people waiting for visas. I hope that this is not the case, but—

[Claudette Deschênes]

I don't believe this is a problem.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

There is no problem there. Okay.

Now let's talk about age-based profiling—I have just invented a new concept! Mr. Gilbert, what do you think about it?

[Rénald Gilbert, Director General, International Region, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Good day. My name is Rénald Gilbert. I am the Regional Director for the International Region. There is no age-based profiling as such. However, when we know that someone is coming for a long-term visit, more than six months, for example, we often ask for a medical exam. For example, we can think of a mother coming to visit her pregnant daughter—as you mentioned earlier—or to care for a young child. Other than those exceptions—where the answer is usually a positive one, because the person can come in most cases—there is very little difference in the case of people aged 50, 60 or 80.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Do you have the statistics on the acceptance rates?

[Rénald Gilbert]

Not by age group. They would need to be created. I do not think that we have that data.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. St-Cyr.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

In my previous question, I talked about ensuring a balance between the quotas, the wait times and the selection criteria. I was interrupted, I ran out of time, but in the meantime, Mr. Young drew a parallel with health care. This may allow me to clarify my thought to some extent because, in my mind, there is a difference.

In health care, the quota, the number of people to be processed, is a natural factor. There are a certain number of people who are sick, and the resources are then allocated. Based on the allocation or non-allocation of resources, there is a waiting period. However, it seems to me that with regard to immigration, the situation is not the same. There is an artificially set, predetermined quota. In order to reach that quota, in order to process the number of applications corresponding to the quota, a certain timeframe is required and the resources are allocated as a result.

Here is my point. The committee needs to understand that there are political choices that need to be made. You are not the ones making those choices. It will be the minister and Parliament. However, inevitably, there is a three-pillared approach. If we maintain the fixed quota and we reduce the processing time, we will have to tighten the selection criteria and vice versa. If we maintain the same selection criteria and we reduce the processing time, the quota will have to be increased, and so forth.

However, if we significantly reduce the processing time, which is a goal that must be attained, could this have an impact on the number of applications submitted? I would like your answer. Because there are people who want to go to different parts of the world—for example emigrant investors—and the time they have to wait to get an answer can have, in my opinion, an impact on their selecting Canada or another country.

Do you also believe that this is a criterion that will have an impact on whether someone applies or not? So, if we significantly reduce the waiting time, could this lead to an increase in the number of applications?

[Claudette Deschênes]

I am not going to immediately answer your question but I will come back to it. Again, if we really want to reduce the waiting time, we could say that we will accept a certain number of applications each year and that after that, we will accept others the following year, but we will not accept more than we can process. That is based on a certain percentage.

With regard to the processing times and the selection of Canada, this question applies above all to investors. With regard to the family class, people want to be reunited with their families. Historically, we haven't seen what you suggest. People still want to apply to come. Obviously, our processing times are not as good as we would like them to be, for investors, but the number of applications continues to increase.

So, there is something in the program they find attractive. Is it to come to live in Canada? Is it something else? We don't know.

[Thierry St-Cyr, Bloc, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Have we ever examined the profile of these investors? Are there such individuals who are concerned about the length of the wait time? The most promising investors have the possibility of going to another country with shorter processing times. This means that those who come to Canada, who agree to wait longer, may perhaps be less interesting. Is this not a risk?