Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

So if this is a cash-strapped student, I should suggest the federal skilled worker program, because the provincial nominee program may have double the fees, or two different fees—not necessarily double, but there would be the federal fee and the provincial fee, so potentially leading them toward the federal skilled worker program....

[David Manicom]

The Canadian experience class is normally what they would qualify under. But again, fees vary a lot from province to province.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Right. It is the experience class. I was thinking federal program and then decided to say skilled worker.

I'm going to switch gears a little now. There have been some in the community, especially the Maytree Foundation, who have argued that a pan-Canadian framework for the provincial nominee program might be useful. Especially from the examples you have talked about today, there is so much disparity among the provinces with their criteria, their selection process, and their processing times—whatever it may be—that we should actually develop a pan-Canadian program.

How do you feel about that? How do you respond to this solution that has been suggested for some of the problems that we have been experiencing in this national program?

[David Manicom]

The policy of the government is one of working together to have broad concurrence on certain principles, so that the programs are successful economically, and to have relatively high standards, and, more importantly, to have clear and objective criteria, and to avoid overlap. In that sense, a pan-Canadian framework is something we are all working toward, but if we mean ensuring that provincial nominee programs become more similar to each other—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

No, it's along the lines that they are similar to each other, but it's also the problem that was identified by the chair through his questioning about mobility, because Canada doesn't restrict it and say that you come into this country in one province, you're not allowed to leave that province, and you have to stay there. We don't say that, so with open interprovincial mobility, it's quite easy—or has a low threshold—for these people who come in on the provincial nominee programs. With some provinces having lower selection standards than others, there may be a problem that arises moving forward, so the pan-Canadian framework might be a good solution for that.

How do you respond to that?

[David Manicom]

Lower standards wasn't my phrase. Provinces are selecting immigrants for very different needs.

I think the federal government's point of view is that if skilled tradespersons are what Alberta needs, and provincial nominees can fill those needs, the fact that there may not be a need for skilled tradespersons in another province is okay, and that's the beauty of the provincial nominee process.

Certainly we are—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Skilled tradespeople have a lot of mobility. They have transferable skills, but there are also some provinces that look for low-skilled workers. There are statistics that show that for those who come into the country as low-skilled workers, their ability to sustain or find work, or to find meaningful employment, may be difficult, and they may look to move elsewhere.

How are we going to ensure that these people are able to integrate—and successfully integrate—for the long term?

[David Manicom]

The low- and semi-skilled workers the provinces are selecting in provincial nominee programs are working in their provinces. At this time, the federal government doesn't have any intention of prohibiting provinces from using their provincial nominee certificates for such workers.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Lamoureux.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to give you an example. This prevents hundreds, if not thousands, of people from being able to come to Canada, and quite often leads even more to misrepresentation.

The example is this. I'm a 25-year-old welder who lives in the Philippines. I have a brother who lives in Winnipeg, Manitoba. He puts aside $10,000 in a trust fund because I need to have money in order to go to Canada. He then advances...and the Province of Manitoba says it's fine with that; it's comfortable with the fact that there is $10,000 in the trust fund.

The question I have is, will that suffice, from Citizenship and Immigration Canada's perspective, in meeting the financial requirement?

[David Manicom]

Yes.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Good. I'm very glad to hear that.

On timelines with regard to the reports, quite often we get a commitment to bring information to the committee. My concern is that this is a very important issue. Can you commit to providing the information for next Tuesday, or Thursday at the very latest, before the committee meets next Thursday? The information I'm most interested in is the number of certificates for each province.

[David Manicom]

Today is Thursday?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I just want to talk to the clerk for a minute.

I'll tell you why I broke on this.

We're going to have a subcommittee meeting on Tuesday, and then we're going to be looking at the backlog report. You've asked to get this information immediately. I'm just raising the question of whether it needs to be immediately—unless for some reason this is it. I doubt that, though. I expect, Mr. Dykstra, that this topic will go into the new year. So I'm just suggesting you be a little less demanding, unless there's some reason why you want it next week.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Yes, there is, Mr. Chairperson, in the sense that I think we've had others make presentations before the committee, they have made a commitment to bring things to the committee, and we haven't necessarily received them in a very timely fashion.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Oh, I bet you Mr. Manicom will get it here quickly, won't you, Mr. Manicom?

[David Manicom]

Of course, the issuance of certificates to the committee has to go through the department's approval process to make sure it's accurate. We believe the information that's been requested so far is relatively easy to obtain statistically, so the process of doing that won't be lengthy.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You'll get this to the clerk in January.

[David Manicom]

I think we can get it to the clerk well before January, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you. That would be great.

How's that, Mr. Lamoureux? We'll start the clock again.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I was thinking next week, Mr. Chair, but however soon you can get it....

Can you provide me with the number of certificates that are going to be issued to the Province of Manitoba for 2012? Do you know that offhand?

[David Manicom]

Issued by the Province of Manitoba?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

For 2012, yes.

[David Manicom]

It's 5,000, so that's 5,000 families, 5,000 principal applicants, depending on how many spouses and children they have.