Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Oct. 18th, 2011

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

The numbers have been going down--

[Les Linklater]

--of around 40,000 or 42,000.

Where the growth in the family-class backlog has come from is from parents and grandparents.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Okay. You said that was a very small number as well.

[Les Linklater]

The number of grandparents is small, but the overall backlog of parents and grandparents is now at about 165,000.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Earlier, Madam Deschênes, you said that working inventory meant actively processing. Working from that, I'm quoting these numbers from table 2 from the CIC operational database; so this is the permanent resident applicants waiting for a decision. That's the table I'm quoting from when I say these numbers.

[Claudette Deschênes]

Okay.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I broke down the numbers, because the most recent numbers that you provided are for the first three months of 2011, January to March 31. For the time before February 27, 2008, you've processed 3,139 applications. I'm just working with the reduction in your working inventory numbers. Those are the differences I'm quoting you.

If I pro-rate it for the 2009-2010 year, you processed 11,000 and change. The previous year was 4,000 and change. These are all just three-month pro-rated numbers that I'm quoting to you.

For post-February 28, 2008, there were 4,000 in three months, 11,000 in three months, and then 3,000 in three months. At the same time, for processing before 2008, there were 28,000 and change, 16,000 and change, and then 12,000 and change. So I'm seeing an influx of those from post-2008 in the 2009 processing year, but after that there is a drastic decline. Even with the pre-2008 numbers, fewer and fewer are being processed.

How do you decide how you're going to actually get rid of the backlog when the number being processed is declining by over 10,000 each year?

[Claudette Deschênes]

I'll start. I'm very visual, so I'm going to try to understand what you've just told us.

If we're talking about federal skilled workers--

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Yes, it's the federal skilled worker program.

[Claudette Deschênes]

We're trying to get rid of the MI-2 and MI-3, so those are being put into active processing as they arrive. We're continuing the work from MI-1 and pre-C-50 from the perspective right now of those that were already in active processing. We're continuing to move them through selection, the statutory requirement, and so on. We are now looking at what our strategy will be. One of the strategies will be to maximize the use of global case management by centralizing some more work into Canada as we move forward.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

My question was why it is that fewer people are being processed from the backlog on a year-by-year basis. I'm seeing less and less of the backlog being processed. In the 2009 year, 28,000 cases from the backlog were processed. That was pre-MI-2 and MI-3. In the 2010 year, there were only 16,000, so fewer were being processed. In the current 2011 year, there are only 12,000.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Could you be quick? We're way over.

[Claudette Deschênes]

It's because those who came in under ministerial instructions 2 and 3 are being put into active processing. Plus you have to look at the levels plan to see how many are federal skilled workers, how many are provincial nominees.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

These are all federal skilled workers.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm sorry, you'll have to do it the next round. We're out of time.

Mr. Leung.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is quite straightforward. Around the world there is an overwhelming need for people to migrate, whether for economic reasons or because of natural disasters. Countries that are able to take in this migration include Canada, the United States, the U.K., Australia, New Zealand, and maybe some others I don't know about.

Could you give us a sense of whether all these countries are faced with the same issues in their backlog, and perhaps the extent of their issues and how they deal with them? On a comparative basis, could you explain where Canada stands within the world and the Commonwealth of Nations?

[Les Linklater]

I'll do my best in terms of trying to unpack what I know of our comparator countries.

In the United States most of their economic immigration is driven primarily by temporary entry initially, and then people transition to permanent status once they've been in the United States. The allocation for various types of visas is set by Congress year over year. So for the H-1B visa, which would be a skilled worker, the number is set by Congress, and, relative to the size of the American labour market, is fairly small.

In terms of family reunification, there's a stratification of priority in the American system in terms of spouses and children of citizens, as opposed to their parents or brothers and sisters, whether married or unmarried. In some countries like the Philippines, the waiting times can be longer than 10 or 12 years in some categories.

New Zealand has in the past had a backlog, which they worked to eliminate through legislation. The specifics I'm not up to date on, but essentially they did use legislative authority to eliminate their previous backlog.

Australia has tended to use a comparable system to Canada's in terms of a levels plan that the immigration minister would table yearly and that reflects priorities year over year for the Government of Australia. We've seen in the last number of years their focus on skilled migration increase rather significantly, along with their overall levels, although during the recession they did dial back their overall levels plan.

The U.K. has been, with the current government, looking at options to reduce immigration from outside of the EU to the United Kingdom and are working to ensure program integrity at the same time, particularly as foreign students look to remain permanently in the United Kingdom.

I think it's fair to say that of most immigrant-receiving countries, Canada's approach is fairly transparent and open in terms of the criteria around skilled worker applications, in terms of the accommodation that's made to ensure provincially selected economic immigrants are part of the mix, and, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, by virtue of the fact that our definition of “family” is much broader than that of most other countries, allowing parents and grandparents to be sponsored to come forward.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Linklater, for your very comprehensive reply.

I think what we're dealing with here is a worldwide problem. I am satisfied that we have the tools to handle it. I thank you again.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I want to pursue the decline. I think you wanted to give a response to the last part of her question and her time ran out, so I want to give you the opportunity to respond to the question she posed, because it's the same line of questioning that I have.

[Claudette Deschênes]

Maybe I'll start and say that at the end of the day we want to hit the total level, but by category. So you always go back to the annual plan and look at it from that perspective.

In the total scheme of things we wanted to make x number of federal skilled workers--and Mr. Linklater will tell me the exact number. Then we would look at the proportion to say how many were from the pre-C-50 that we needed to keep moving, and then with our focus on the more recent MI instructions, MI-2 and MI-3.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I think the other part that I wouldn't mind getting you to comment on is the impact the provincial nominee program has had on our federal skilled worker program with respect to the significant increases we have made to the PNP and how that might potentially have impacted this as well.

[Les Linklater]

Over the course of the last five to six years we've seen what I would term an explosion of demand on the provincial nominee program. Manitoba was an early participant, and I think that is demonstrated and manifested in the absolute numbers of nominees each year, 5,000 for that province.

Other provinces have moved quite aggressively over the last number of years to increase their numbers as well. Historically, if you look at the proportion of skilled workers who have come to Canada between the federal skilled worker program and the PNP, the ratio, you will see, has gone from approximately 95% to 5% to a space where it's probably closer now to 60:40, which means that the levels plan has stayed relatively constant with admissions of 240,000 to 265,000. We have accommodated that growth in the provincial nominee program by reducing the number of federal skilled workers who were processed every year under the levels plan.

We've seen admissions grow from the hundreds to a point where we would expect in 2011 close to 40,000 provincial nominees arriving in Canada.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

One of the discussions we're debating, of course, is whether the number should go down, should go up, or should remain the same.

I look to what we did in 2006 in terms of tripling the amount of money invested in settlement funding to assist those new immigrants. If we chart a course that sees a significant increase in the number of immigrants we accept on a yearly basis, if in fact that is a direction the government were to take, can you describe to me our ability to deliver those services, from a settlement perspective? If we were to see an increase like that, how would we contemplate the cost of that, and how would we actually make it work?

[Les Linklater]

If we were to assume that the amount of money available for settlement and integration programming were to remain stable, any increase in the levels planned would have an impact on the amount per capita that would be available for individual immigrants.

In fact, when we look at our allocation formula for the expenditure of those settlement funds, we use a rolling three-year horizon, which is based on actual admissions, province by province, setting Quebec aside. We would see increases in some provinces, particularly in the west, as we have seen with the growth in the PNP program. We've seen more funds being allocated within our budget to providing services in those provinces, largely at the expense of Ontario, which has seen its share go down.

As we look at any increase or decrease in overall levels, the way we calculate our allocations can accommodate that. But if the overall number grows, then clearly, the amount of money available on a per capita basis declines. You have to look at what suite of services is provided, understanding the importance of official language ability and how you make sure people have what they need to integrate into their communities.