Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 19th, 2012

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Their use of that information, the length of time—is it going to be similar to what...?

[Robert Bell]

I don't know what the policies are there.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

What about some of the countries outside of Canada, the U.S. or New Zealand, like Portugal, the United Arab Emirates, or the Philippines? How are they reacting to the implementation of this?

[Robert Bell]

I'll take them one at a time. Portugal was initially coming from behind. They were behind in doing their e-passport. They needed some help getting going on that, but now they've actually deployed automated capture of biometric information for their passport issuance and national ID issuance. So that automated process, deployed throughout missions around the world, is working well. They then implemented e-gates at their borders to do just what Australia is doing. They do it a little differently, but it seems as though that's been accepted or....

Are we out of time?

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I was just checking.

[Robert Bell]

Okay. I wanted to pace myself.

Our partner over there now is one of the European leaders in implementing that in other gates—

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

I have about 30 seconds, so I'm going to jump in here.

Overall, would your assessment be that due to the implementation of all this, in those countries security has been enhanced and the safety and security of their citizens improved?

[Robert Bell]

I would think that safety and security have been enhanced. There have been cost reductions in their operations—

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

They have saved money.

[Robert Bell]

They have saved money, and I think they have high acceptance, from a user point of view.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mrs. Groguhé, you have the floor.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome our witnesses.

The departmental representatives spoke to us about a validity period of five years, in the case of the eTA.

Do you think that is long enough? Should it be longer?

[Robert Bell]

I was very heartened to hear five years. Australia is one year. The U.S. is two years. And they're all limited by passport duration, so if your passport is going to expire in three years, it would be good. If it were going to expire in six months, then it would be limited to six months. So for Canada, with a five-year passport and a five-year limit on this, those are compatible times.

I appreciate that this applies to other people's passports.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Very well.

In your opinion, should foreigners have recourse if their electronic travel authorization application is rejected? If so, what recourse should CIC make available to them?

[Robert Bell]

I should have the people who are policy folks respond to that.

[James Bissett]

I don't think they should have the right to go to the courts about it, but I do think they should ask if they think there's been a mistake made in their record or—they should certainly have an opportunity to try to have that corrected.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay. Therefore…

[James Bissett]

I just assume that is built into the system. If you are refused in Australia or in the United States on the electronic travel authority, you do have an opportunity then of going before a visa officer and explaining why you think a mistake has been made.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

So you are talking about favouring not judicial recourse, but simple recourse in the case where an error is made in the application processing or in how the information submitted was understood. All right.

The questions that travellers will have to answer to obtain travel authorization have been disclosed to the media. The questions concern convictions, arrests, espionage, terrorism, and so on.

Do you think foreigners could simply answer the questions in order to obtain an electronic travel authorization, regardless of the accuracy of the information they provided? What about forged documents or false evidence that might be provided for this purpose?

[James Bissett]

Well, clearly, I think the system Canada is going to introduce initially is not on a biometric system completely, and therefore what you're saying is probably true. I mean, there is the possibility for fraud, and there is the possibility that you can answer questions falsely and still get in. I think those are the weaknesses that Mr. Bell has already pointed out.

In addition to that, of course, very seldom is a well-known terrorist who might be on some sort of lookout note going to travel under his own name. He's going to travel under a false identity and probably with a false passport. Unless you have face or eye biometric recognition, the system is surely inadequate, but it's the best first step forward, I think. You know that biometrics were always assumed in the border plan, right from the beginning.

In addition to that, I think that even though the system has its flaws, it does act as a deterrent. I know that a lot of people are reluctant to apply if they have a criminal record, because they assume they'll be caught out. On the other hand, I don't know about other people, but if I'm travelling to a foreign country, I always feel much more comfort if I'm guaranteed beforehand that I'm going to get in when I arrive. That, I think, is a big benefit of this system.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

The United Kingdom, New Zealand and Australia have already used this automated verification process. Do you know about any studies that have already been done that assess the results obtained by those countries? If you do, could you tell us about them briefly?

[Robert Bell]

I don't know of any studies.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Mr. Bissett, Mr. Collacott, do you have anything to say about that?

[James Bissett]

No.