Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 28th, 2012

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

None of them raised the issue.

Did the minister take the time to raise the issue with his counterparts?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

It wasn't on the agenda. We had a lot of open discussion time as well, and none of the provinces, to my knowledge, asked that IFH changes be put on the agenda.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

No province raised the issue with the minister in regard to IFH?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Once again, and for the record, no.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

That's very interesting.

Did any of the provinces raise the issue of provincial nominees? The Province of Ontario, for example, would like to see an increase—

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Yes. That was the main subject of discussion.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Very good. Are you looking at increasing the number of provincial nominee certificates for the province of Ontario, and if so, by how many? In particular, with regard to the province of Manitoba, are you looking at giving them a guarantee as to the numbers they have?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

The answer is that we have not yet done our allocations for 2013 for the provincial nominee program. We are taking into consideration the submissions that we receive from provinces. The challenge, Mr. Lamoureux, is that all provinces are asking for significant increases, which either would require a significant increase in overall immigration levels or a significant reduction in the number of federally selected immigrants.

We have already expanded the number of permanent residents admitted through the PNP, provincial nominee programs, by nearly tenfold, from a few thousand PR, permanent residents, in 2005, to between 42,000 and 45,000 in next year's immigration plan. That's not a cap; it's a tenfold increase.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Yes, but the number of certificates issued is closer to about 20,000. We should be looking at an increase somewhere in the neighbourhood of up to 30,000.

Would the minister be prepared to increase the number of certificates so that the provinces that have the demand for these certificates will be able to receive more nominees?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Each certificate represents just under three people, so if you ask for an increase of 10,000 certificates issued, you're asking for an increase in immigration of about 30,000 new permanent residents.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

That's not that bad.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That would then lead to further family reunification sponsorship. You're talking about a very significant increase in overall immigration levels, which only 10% of Canadians support.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Okay, now that the minister understands it, the question is, will the government actually do it? There is a huge demand coming from the provinces on this particular issue. It was a huge issue at the first ministers' meetings in Atlantic Canada recently.

Will the minister respond by saying that the government is prepared to increase the number of certificates?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We've certainly acknowledged requests by several provinces to increase their allotment for provincial nominees. We had a very constructive discussion about this two weeks ago at our federal-provincial-territorial meeting. I think there's an understanding on the part of the provinces that there has to be a more rational model for the allocation of these positions.

For example, one province, the one you come from, has 32% of the provincial nominees, with about 3% to 4% of the population. There's no formula for allocation. There's no correlation between the allocation of provincial nominee positions and labour market needs. Frankly, some provinces do a better job than others in terms of the administration and the integrity of their program. These are complex issues that we've discussed with the provinces. We have demonstrated our support for the program and provincial participation in the selection of immigrants by increasing it tenfold.

I would remind Mr. Lamoureux that if we were to go back to the position of the previous government, we would have to cut the number of provincial nominees by 90%.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I have a very short question, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're out of time, Mr. Lamoureux. I'm sorry.

It's almost 5:15. There was some discussion whether we could go past 5:30.

Is there unanimous consent to go past 5:30?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

There's no consent. The questions to the minister will end at 5:25 because we have to have the usual three votes. I will end the questioning, wherever we are, at 5:25.

Mr. Menegakis.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and all your officials, for once again joining us.

Minister, in your recent meetings with your provincial counterparts, I know that the expression of interest system was a topic that was considerably discussed. I've heard some good feedback about that system, and it seems to me that it's good common sense.

Could you share with us the reaction by the provinces with respect to the EOI system and perhaps some of the things you've been hearing from the business community?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I'm going to defer the question on the provinces to my deputy because he's been working very closely with them on this.

[Neil Yeates, Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Provinces are very interested in the expression of interest system. In June we set up a federal-provincial-territorial working group. That group has been very busy. We have scoped out a whole different series of areas we've agreed to work on together, one of which is how best to involve employers.

At the same time, we held a series of round tables with employers across Canada. They are very, very keen to be involved in this new system. We have talked to them about a number of the key design elements. We will go back out to them early in 2013 to get another level of feedback with a further detailed level of proposals.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

As well, in terms of the business community, I have tasked my deputy with working very closely with employers, sector councils, industry, and other stakeholders in the design of the expression of interest system to ensure that it is labour market responsive and relatively user friendly. We don't want to set up what is, in sort of bureaucratic, abstract terms, a perfect system on paper that becomes unusable for small to medium-sized enterprises, for example, that do not have their own HR departments and can't navigate their way through the complexity of the immigration system.

The deputy and officials have been meeting with all of the key industry councils, with the chambers of commerce and so forth, and there's a lot of very keen interest on their part.

As well, the deputy went with I think six provincial deputies to Australia and New Zealand to closely study their implementation of EOI systems, which in New Zealand was, I think, seven to ten years ago—

[Neil Yeates]

In 2003.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

—and in Australia this past year.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

Minister, in your cross-country consultations with Canadians, you have spoken about the factors that will become the focus of our new and improved Canadian immigration system. They include language skills, younger applicants, relevant skills, and education.

Can you tell us why you have chosen these factors and what the evidence shows?