Citizenship and Immigration Committee on March 19th, 2013

[Roxanne James, Conservative, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

When I think of Canada and of people who have Canadian citizenship and they travel around the world, in most parts of the world Canada is one of the best countries, most welcoming countries. We have the greatest people. In fact, there is even a commercial about some sort of a sale, and people in Canada weren't fighting to get in the door for the red-hot sales. They actually open the door and say, “You go first.” That's kind of what Canada is, what people think of Canadians.

When I think of someone who holds a Canadian passport being able to go into other countries more freely than perhaps coming from another country that has greater scrutiny, I'm just wondering whether you think that Canadian passports actually allow people to travel more freely with less scrutiny around the world. Do you think holding a Canadian passport is more lucrative for people who perhaps might want to pursue acts of terrorism in other countries?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Absolutely. Before the chair cuts me off, I will finish by saying that a Canadian passport has the highest value, in my view, and it opens a lot of doors, respectfully, and we should keep that respect.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Menegakis.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Shory, in regard to the process of deemed renunciation, why did you choose “deemed renunciation” instead of “revocation”? Is it because these individuals through their own actions and choices have committed these acts?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

That is correct. In taking the actions mentioned in my bill, basically taking armed action against our armed forces, these individuals basically don't care about Canada, don't care about Canadian values, and don't care about Canadian citizenship as well. These have no value to them.

Rather than go through all the paper trail to send them notice, etc., they basically must be deemed to have made an application.

Of course, once someone makes an application or the process has commenced, there would be due process, as mentioned earlier. At the end, there would be a certificate of renunciation issued.

Before that, there would be an appeal process available. Even before the decision, I guess an individual would be able to make his or her case in front of a citizenship judge. Once the renunciation was finalized, there would be an appeal to the Federal Court. I'm not suggesting that due process should be taken away in any manner whatsoever.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

I think that answers my next question. Definitely, under your bill individuals would still have access to due process. For example, they would be notified and they would have access to the Federal Court.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Absolutely they would.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

I'm encouraged by the fact that you're very open to accepting amendments that are in the spirit of the bill. Since you introduced it, have you considered any amendments? If so, could you share some of those with us?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

When I tabled this bill, I had no political intention to play with it, because it's my strong belief that new Canadians should be rewarded for the great service one can provide to our country. At the same time, those who basically hold no value to our citizenship do not need to have citizenship.

Again, I'm looking forward to any suggestions from the committee to look into. So far I haven't received any suggestions.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

I appreciate that.

I have a question about born Canadians. There are many people who were born here and raised here, but because of where their parents came from—a lot of us are from a multicultural community, and I'm one of them—some people have dual citizenship, because of the country their parents came from.

Would this bill apply to them as well?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

The bill says that any individual....

We have to remember that we have our international obligations. We have signed the Geneva Convention and the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness, so we have to comply with all those obligations that Canada has. Of course, that is why, to avoid making someone stateless, this bill's requirement is to apply as it stands now. It's to apply to those individuals who have citizenship or permanent residence from some other place as well.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Permanent residence, did you say?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

I said citizenship or permanent residence.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

So a born Canadian who has dual citizenship, who commits a crime against our armed forces, can have the privilege of Canadian citizenship renounced.

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Absolutely.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Ms. Freeman.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

I'm sorry. I wasn't sure we were going to have extra time; I'm sorry about that.

I'm going to pass it over to Sadia, if that's okay, because I'm not quite sure where we were.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

I would like to come back to the notion of dual citizenship. Certainly, for children who arrived in Canada with foreign parents, the likelihood that they may be stateless is quite high, after all. I would just like that area to be clarified. That is, what are the clear consequences for people who arrive here and have two nationalities? There is a significant risk of their becoming stateless. How do you see your bill dealing with that?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

My bill simply states that an individual is deemed to have made an application for renunciation of their Canadian citizenship, or if an individual is a permanent resident is deemed to have withdrawn their application for Canadian citizenship, if they engage in an act of war or treason or whatever against Canadians.

This bill complies with the Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness. Again, these individuals would not automatically be deported. There would be a due process always. We have to comply with the Geneva Convention. Also this bill makes no exception to existing laws to comply with our international obligation.

Keeping all that in mind, this bill would only affect people who have citizenship in some other country as well or have some permanent residence in another country.

[Sadia Groguhé, NDP, Saint-Lambert, QC]

Do you want to ask a question?

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

This is a follow-up question. You were quoted earlier as saying “meet proper justice, with all due oversight”, and we asked you where that oversight would come from. You cited section 48 of the immigration act. Section 48 speaks of removal orders and of how they're enforced and how people must leave the country immediately when one is executable.

Are you suggesting, then, that your bill is saying that people should be expelled from the country?

[Devinder Shory, Conservative, Calgary Northeast, AB]

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify. I believe it is section 18, not section 48. Section 18 of the Citizenship Act provides a good procedure for this.

Section 18 states that the minister needs to notify the applicant whose citizenship is in question prior to its being revoked. The applicant also sees that I said a certificate of renunciation would be issued after the process is completed. Of course, an individual could seek leave to appeal to the Federal Court as well.

[Philip Toone, NDP, Gaspésie—Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC]

Thank you for the clarification. We'll get back to a follow-up on that in a moment.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I think our time has expired, Mr. Shory. You've done well in putting up with all the questions. Thank you for your appearance. You're welcome to stay for the rest of our deliberations.

We will suspend.