Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 4th, 2013

[Les Linklater]

As Bob mentioned, comparatively speaking our costs are very competitive and in fact on the low side, when we look at five country conference partners. There is a question of commitment to the program in the degree of subsidization that the government provides. As we've indicated, we recover a good portion of the cost of processing applications.

As we look at the broader suite of initiatives that we're rolling out, such as biometrics, as well as the cost of a visitor visa on top of that, we're very mindful of the potential impacts on the tourism industry. We have regular engagement with representatives of that particular community. I participate in an air consultative committee that CBSA chairs to ensure that we are receiving the input of the industry around the initiatives we're bringing forward.

I think most people recognize, post-9/11, that the security situation is really non-negotiable. So to the extent that we can advance additional security measures that impose the least amount of disruption on travellers, the better served Canada and the Canadian tourism industry will be.

We see this as we look at the electronic travel authority, which will be applied to current visa-exempt nationals, except those from the United States. Again they are looking at a fee that would likely be very competitive with the fees that both the U.S. and Australia charge for a similar service, recognizing that we want to ensure that Canada remains attractive.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

So our fees, when we compare them to some of our peer countries, such as Australia, the United Kingdom, the U.S., New Zealand, are, I think you said, on the low side when it comes to the—what did you call it...? Did you call it the five country conference?

[Les Linklater]

Yes. Currently—I'm just looking at the comparative charts, which we're happy to provide through the clerk—we have the differential fee of $150 for a multiple and $75 for a single-entry visa. For the U.S.A., it's $164 plus a local issuance fee, which depends on the local market. For the U.K., it's $126; for Australia, $120; and for New Zealand, $143.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

If you could provide that to the clerk—and of course, Mr. Chair, through the clerk to us—that information would be very useful.

Here is a quick question on the appeal process. How does CIC ensure that procedural fairness is exercised when re-examining an application?

[Les Linklater]

Bob may want to add, but my recollection of my time as a visa officer is that if an individual reapplies, a different officer would review the application, if possible. That's why we try to have at least two officers in each of our missions, so that we can accommodate those types of situations.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Mr. Weston.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our guests.

I think that, as parliamentarians, we have a bit of a schizophrenic approach to the process we are discussing today. On the one hand, we want to ensure safety in Canada, but, on the other hand, as champions of tourism, we want to open the country's doors to everyone.

When I was running a law firm in Taiwan, I saw that there was a lot of fraud. I wrote a letter to the minister, but it didn't seem like he paid much mind to it.

I would like to know whether people who want to help our representatives abroad can give them their opinion. Is there a hot line, or a way for you to work with others to continuously improve security, fraud monitoring, and so on?

[Robert Orr]

Mr. Chair, I appreciate the question. One thing we are always trying to achieve is the balance, if you like, between security issues, the admissibility issues, and facilitation. That's one of the key things that we have to get right, and we're constantly working on getting the balance correct, as you rightly indicated.

There are means of offering information. I think each mission worldwide would have an e-mail address to which that sort of information could be fed. Many of the missions have officers who are actively soliciting that sort of information as well, going out into the community. Often they are officers assigned by the Canada Border Services Agency, who are working on these sorts of issues. They work particularly closely with the airlines in those communities, who have especially good insight into what is going on more broadly in the community. They are working with other missions as well, so that we get as much intelligence as we can, which will have a bearing on the decisions visa officers will make.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you. That experience dates back a few decades.

My second question is about the flip side of the coin. As a tourism champion, I thought the statistics my colleague Mr. Menegakis provided were very interesting.

Can we use sound marketing practices and co-operate with tourism supporters to assert that our process is better than that of other countries and that it is easier to come to Canada than to other countries?

[Les Linklater]

Our colleague Dawn Edlund, the Associate Assistant Deputy Minister of Operations, serves as a liaison between the department and the tourism industry. She speaks with representatives of the tourism industry, airline companies and the hospitality sector across the country almost on a weekly basis. Our efforts in marketing ensure good collaboration with those sectors to determine their concerns. It is a matter of proposing initiatives and deciding how to implement them more easily in order to provide industry and clients with a good experience.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you.

Ms. Sims.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

I noticed that earlier you did give us the approval rating of 88% for visas overall. Can you tell me what the approval rating is for the Chandigarh office specifically, please?

[Robert Orr]

I can. I have it here. Just a moment, please.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Well, if you don't have it—

[Robert Orr]

No, I do have it here. The Chandigarh office at the moment is at 52% for visitor visas.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

It's 52%. That actually explains the onslaught on my office, where even having two full-time people looking at casework just isn't enough.

I looked at the list of what officers must be satisfied about. When I look at it, I'm also forced to ask you this question. What do you see as the risks that prevent visa officers from granting visas compared to, let's say as an example, a daughter being turned down to attend her mother's funeral?

I'm going to get very specific here without naming the person, because she represents a pattern. She's leaving two children behind, her husband behind, and her extended family behind, but she has four sisters and a brother over here. The response says the reason she will not return is that she has too many family ties in Canada.

We're often bombarded with those types of responses. Tell me, what do you see as the risks of granting visas for funerals, weddings, and family events?

[Robert Orr]

Mr. Chair, I think the risk in these cases is looking at the full picture of the applicant's situation and whether we are convinced that the individual would leave Canada at the end of the visit. That is the core piece. That assumes the admissibility requirements are met and so on, but I think essentially the risk is whether that person will leave at the end of their visit.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

When I've looked at the full application, I've been able to place a check mark on what is listed here, and “criminal record” isn't one of the reasons that is being used.

The other thing is that the United States conducts an interview with every TRV applicant. I know that in Chandigarh, for example, or Delhi, their turnaround is quick because that's the comparator I hear in my office all the time. They say, “I can go and get a five-year visa for the U.S. within days, yet I can't even get a visa to come to Canada.”

Do you know the number for applications versus those granted for the U.S. using the interview process? Have we looked at this option for Canada?

[Robert Orr]

I see a couple of points there.

I don't have the precise statistic on the American refusal versus acceptance rate through the interview process. I do not have that available. We could try to get it, but I'm not sure. It would take a little bit of work to get that.

We have looked at interviews. A number of years ago, we did far more interviews than we do now. Frankly, we did not find them to be an overly useful process in the vast majority of cases. We still do interview some applicants, for sure, and in some instances it is extremely useful to have the interview, to have that face-to-face contact and to be able to speak with individuals. But in the vast majority of cases, we don't find that it's necessary or that the results are much different from just doing it on paper.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I know you said earlier that there's no appeal process, so you have two choices: apply again or go for a Federal Court judicial review. How many cases of Federal Court judicial reviews have we had in the last two years?

[Robert Orr]

The number is very low, but I think in 2011 it was 64 cases, something like that.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much.

The other thing is, when an applicant gets a checklist back as to the reasons for refusal, it is a very generic checklist, as you know. How would a person find out what was missing from their files, what they needed to submit, what the actual reason was? I've looked at, by the way, by now, hundreds upon hundreds of those checklists, and I'll tell you, looking at those, I would not know what other information I needed to provide.

For example, it will say “no travel history”. For many people this is going to be the trip of their lifetime. There won't be a travel history. For others, they might even have four or five stamps of places they've visited in the file, yet it still says “no travel history”. It will say—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're over.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Okay, sorry.