Evidence of meeting #84 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
I only mentioned it because I did talk to Mr. Dykstra, and I had an agreement that the Conservative spot would remain in exactly the same spot.
Conservative
Rick Dykstra Conservative St. Catharines, ON
Okay, but if there's disagreement on it....
Is she coming or not?
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
I was actually going to tell her not to come—she's in another meeting—but because we had agreement...and now we don't have agreement. Okay.
I'll go back to you, Madam Groguhé, but first, Monsieur Dusseault, on a point of order.
NDP
Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC
I'm not sure I understood what we were going to do for question period, which should be starting in about five minutes. Can you remind me? I wasn't listening and didn't understand what the committee intended to do for the next 45 minutes.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
I was out of the room, so if you will hold on a minute, I will check with the clerk.
All right. There was a vote. The vote did not carry, so the meeting is carrying on. That's what was decided while I was not in the room.
Thank you.
I'll go back to Madam Groguhé.
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will continue.
In cases where a person obtains citizenship through fraud, false representation or by knowingly concealing material circumstances, that person would have his or her citizenship revoked. There is currently no other way of revoking citizenship at present. This new proposal, by way of a private member's bill, raises serious constitutional concerns given the Charter's guarantees in sections 6, 7 and 15, particularly where it concerns matters of national or ethnic origin, or potentially the recognized analogous ground of citizenship.
It is clear that we are again getting into constitutional matters, matters that we must put forward and take into account in order to use that perspective to evaluate the amendments proposed by the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism.
To continue, Madam Chair…
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
We have a point of order.
Monsieur Dusseault.
NDP
Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC
I'm sorry for interrupting my colleague. I know that we have had health breaks a number of times. I thought this might be a good time for one. The committee meeting hasn't been suspended for a few minutes for a few hours now. So I would ask you, Madam Chair, if you could seek unanimous consent for a health break so that everyone can go to the bathroom or do what they need to do.
NDP
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
We do not have unanimous consent.
Did you still want to be on the list, Ms. James?
Conservative
Roxanne James Conservative Scarborough Centre, ON
I just want to remind the member from the NDP that he's free to get up and take a bathroom break any time he needs to, or to get some coffee or refreshments. That's the privilege of every member of this committee. We might need to have a full break with everyone going to the bathroom at the same time.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
Thank you.
I just want to tighten up points of order a bit.
A point of order was made. I was asked to ask for unanimous consent. We did not get it. Now I will go back to the speaker.
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
To wrap up on that point, Madam Chair, we can wonder whether the bill respects the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which states:
...no law of Canada shall be construed or applied so as to (a) authorize or effect the arbitrary detention, imprisonment or exile of any person;
The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms also prohibits any law that would:
(e) deprive a person of the right to a fair hearing in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice for the determination of his rights and obligations;
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
Just hold on a moment, please, Madam Groguhé. I know that I am finding it difficult to follow, so I want to make sure the interpreters are finding that your pace is okay for them.
Is the pace okay for the interpreters? Thank you very much. If you do feel at any time that you need us to slow down, please let the chair know and I will accommodate.
Madam Groguhé.
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
Am I speaking too quickly, Madam Chair? I would like to know if my pace is okay.
NDP
NDP
Sadia Groguhé NDP Saint-Lambert, QC
Very well.
Madam Chair, I will address and compare the provisions that have been made by this government. They concern the three mammoth bills of the current legislature, the lack of transparency in the matter of the resignation of the Prime Minister's chief of staff, the numerous ethical scandals and many other things. We cannot trust this government. So why should we put forward this motion?
Canadians are not fools. They know that the Conservatives will not hesitate to benefit from a potential flaw in the legislative process to bypass the current verification and monitoring mechanisms. The worst thing to do would be to support this motion, which would give them free rein.
Moreover, the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism's proposals are not at a dead end. If he wants to table such a range of measures concerning the revocation and renunciation of citizenship, he is free to do so through a government bill. At that point, we would be able to spend more time debating it in the House of Commons and in committee, which is important.
We know just how important it is to have a lengthy debate on these issues, which involve profound changes within our country. We will then be free to ask witnesses about the content proposed by the minister, which is unfortunately not the case now, in the context of the study of Bill C-425.
More checks will be done on the constitutionality of the legislative initiative. A number of times, I highlighted just how central constitutionality was. I also stressed the need to look into it to determine whether the bill and the amendments truly fit with our constitution.
Lastly, the members of this House will be in a position to do their job properly and effectively. Our duty and our job, as parliamentarians, is to carefully study bills submitted to Parliament, be they government initiatives or private members' initiatives. In this case here—I will end on this, if I may—I would say that we need to say no to this motion because it clearly limits our duty and our work as parliamentarians.
Since citizenship is at the heart of the minister's amendments, we must do our work in a rigorous and transparent manner. We must be able to handle these issues, but through a government bill, so that the debates are longer and the issue is studied much more in depth.
Thank you, Madam Chair.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
Thank you very much, Madam Groguhé. I'm presuming now that you are done your debate.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
You would like to be put on the list for another round. Okay, the clerk will put you on the list.
Our next speaker on the list is Madam Sitsabaiesan. Before we go to Ms. Sitsabaiesan, I'm going to call a half-hour break for comforts.
The meeting is suspended until 3 o'clock.
NDP
The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims) NDP Jinny Sims
I'd like to call the meeting to order.
The next person on the speakers list is Ms. Sitsabaiesan.
