Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 13th, 2013

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

No, I think I got the essence. I think that...just give me a minute as I had earlier.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

What is the intent of the motion?

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Allow me to talk to the clerk, if I may. I have the wording.

Could you repeat the wording again please? Then the mover will get to motivate. Then I do have a speakers list that started with Mr. Harris.

Could you read it out again and then motivate please?

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Absolutely, Madam Chair. The words that are being added to the end are:

and that this request is to take place in the House on June 21, 2013.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Can you start motivating, and that will give the intent.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I actually don't mind—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

On a point order, are you ruling that you're allowing a second motion to come onto the table while the first motion already exists?

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

I have sought advice from the clerk. This is an amendment and it is an amendment that is possible within the rules that we operate under. Because the 21st of June is the last day the House sits, it is admissible. If it had been a separate motion, it would not have been admissible. Because it's an amendment, because it goes on to say “and that this request”, it is. So I do have a speakers list and people are welcome to get on it.

I'm going to Ms. Sitsabaiesan.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you.

Shall I continue, Madam Chair?

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Yes.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

The reason I'm proposing an amendment to this motion is that I felt this might be a compromise and might actually be something the government members may be in favour of. Since we have a relationship of cordiality here and we've been quite respectful over the last little bit, I wanted to ensure that I was making a move in good faith and thinking that it would be something that would ensure it would be dealt with in the House before the House is set to rise this session.

That's about it, Madam Chair. I simply wanted to make sure that I was doing what was necessary to try to put forward a compromise, or something that would be an act that the government members would also appreciate.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Thank you. I'm going to turn the mic over to Mr. Harris.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to participate in this debate. I see the amendment would allow this motion to actually go to the House on the last sitting day. I suppose it might be said that this is more acceptable to members of the committee if it's a motion they agree with.

But as to the whole purpose of this motion and the amendment of whether we bring it to the House, do we want it dealt with by the House? Do we actually want the scope of this bill to be increased, and to essentially allow a private member's bill to become a government bill?

We have a private members' proceeding in the House that's been decided on for many years to allow private members to play a strong role in the House. We had a private member who put forth this bill with a particular scope, his interest in citizenship. I know there's been significant debate about the bill, whether we ought to be doing that kind of change to our citizenship, making different classes of citizens, providing for the stripping of citizenship in certain cases. Now that has its own particular scope.

Now we're seeking to have the consideration of the bill expanded. It's my sense, Madam Chair, that expanding the scope of the bill is a particular politicized way to say we want to talk about terrorism now, we want to talk about other reasons to strip people of citizenship, we want to talk about other ways of demonizing people, and an additional punishment beyond the criminal code, beyond any other activities to people who have already been granted citizenship—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Okay, we have a point of order. Let me hear it.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Mr. Harris is speaking to the motion. He's not speaking to the amendment. I'm not sure if he's confused, but we're dealing with the amendment, not the motion.

We'll be going back to the motion as soon as this amendment is defeated. I just want to point out, through you to Mr. Harris, that he's now speaking to the bill and he should be speaking to the amendment.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

To the point of order, Madam Chair, I ask the member to be a little patient. He jumps the gun here and wants to make these points of order on an ongoing basis. But if we're talking about when this request is being made, we have to talk about it in the context of the bill and the scope of the bill and what's trying to be accomplished here. I don't know if members opposite are satisfied with the amendment or not. We haven't heard anyone speak. But they may say it's a great idea, let's do it on the 21st of June.

But I doubt that somehow. So we're talking about the timing of when this should be—

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Okay, now we're getting more into debate. Let me say this, what we have on the floor right now is an amendment. The amendment is there amending.... It's not like after a colon. It actually says, “sitting days and that this request”. So when you're dealing with that amendment, it's very difficult only to talk about that last “and” without referencing what goes in front of it. Otherwise, we're back into one of those things again: yea or nay.

So to be fair—and I am really trying to hear your concern—I would urge the member to remember that we are here to speak to the amendment. Even though the amendment does amend the paragraph before it, or the sentence before it, and it does actually give the member some latitude to talk about what the amendment will actually do and talk about the content—so it does have that kind of latitude—I would urge the member not to go off fishing in a far river.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I should be more clear. I actually don't want this—

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

Sorry, Mr. Harris we have another point of order from Mr. Lamoureux.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Chair if I may, is it possible to get a copy of the entire amendment? I have one copy and one of my colleagues to the right of me was showing some other piece of paper. It looked like it was a different formatting possibly. Could I get an actual copy of the motion as being suggested to be amended?

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

We will get that and I will ask a question of clarification.

Are you saying that you want us to wait until we get that, or can we carry on with the debate?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

We can carry on with the debate. I just want to make sure that I'm with everyone else.

[The Vice-Chair (Ms. Jinny Jogindera Sims), NDP, Jinny Sims]

I just wanted to make sure I had heard you. So we are getting the motion as well as the amendment in a printed form for everybody.

We do have you on the list. Is it a point of order? Okay, another point of order.

At this time, welcome to our committee. I know I've had the opportunity to observe you at a different committee and I really appreciate the amazing way you conduct yourself when you're at committee.

Welcome, Ms. Liu.

[Laurin Liu, NDP, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It's a pleasure to be here, and thank you for your indulgence. I'm not a regular sitting member of this committee, so I appreciate help from my colleagues and from you, Madam Chair, in understanding the topic that we're discussing today in committee.

I would just like to raise a point concerning the amendment and concerning my colleague's very reasoned point of order as well.

I would like to know if eventually, when we get the amendments, they will be available in both official languages?