Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 13th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I would. I'm giving you a fair bit of leeway on this. Your topic may be interesting, but I'm not so sure it's relevant. I'm going to ask you to wind up, because, quite frankly, I'm not convinced that what you're saying is relevant to the motion. I have given you all kinds of leeway. You've talked about some very interesting things that you've derived from O'Brien and Bosc, and that's fine, but I'm going to ask you to wind up.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

A point of order, if I may Mr. Chair, about what you just said.

You made it very clear that we must not repeat what's already been said or raise matters you have already ruled on. You said, yourself, that I am not being repetitive, that I am not challenging your rulings and that I am referring to O'Brien and Bosc. And yet, you don't see how my remarks are relevant.

You are misleading me. I would ask that you clarify your comment because everything I am saying pertains to Mr. Dykstra's motion and the words of O'Brien and Bosc in House of Commons Procedure and Practice. I gave you the page numbers. Obviously, summarizing 150 pages from House of Commons Procedure and Practice in 10 minutes can't be done. It's akin to asking someone to summarize a 600-page Ph.D. thesis in 10 minutes. With all due respect, Mr. Chair, I have the right to speak and I will hold on to that right as long as I follow your basic instructions, which I am doing.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Monsieur Giguère, I've listened to you very carefully, and what you're saying, in my submission, is not relevant to the matter before this committee.

I've given you a lot of leeway, but my patience is wearing thin. I'd ask you to wind up.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Chair, you didn't give me an answer regarding the instructions you gave me. You gave me clear instructions—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I have answered your question. I'm saying that what you are submitting may be interesting, but it's not relevant. I don't know how much clearer I can be.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

I tried to re-examine my comments in their entirety in light of Mr. Dykstra's motion, which basically seeks a postponement. He is asking for a 30-day extension, which he explains, and you accepted his reasons. With all due respect, I am telling this committee that this motion represents a violation. There are other solutions that would be acceptable to everyone.

Does someone have a point of order?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Giguère has already actually gone through those, even though I pointed out that the five arguments that he has already presented have already been made by other members of his party here at committee.

Other than that point, he has actually already made the argument of what five other ways we could have dealt with this issue. He is just about to start describing those five other ways again. I would submit that he's repeating his argument again.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Ms. Sims, you have the floor.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Ms. Sims asked for the floor.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

On a point of order before I resume speaking to this, I believe that my colleague in this case was following the rules made by you. He was making new points that none of us had made before.

I would ask the chair to reconsider and allow him to continue speaking.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I will take a few moments to consult with the clerks.

The difficulty is, Ms. Sims—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Chair, my apologies, if you are about to make a ruling...I was already on the list to speak on that same point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Okay.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

You forgot about me again.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I know. I don't know what's happening to me. How could I do that?

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I don't know what I need to do to make sure that you remember me before you move on.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'll never forget you, ever.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Mr. Chair, Monsieur Giguère was making his point. I asked you to use basketball, but you've been using baseball and the “three strikes and you're out” model. This time there wasn't those three strikes; it was just, “Well, Monsieur Giguère, you're being repetitive because one of the members said that you're starting to repeat yourself.” You didn't give him the opportunity to state whether he was starting a new point or repeating something he had already mentioned.

I do believe that the floor was arbitrarily taken away from the speaker at the time—Monsieur Giguère. I believe, Mr. Chair, that you should return the floor back to Monsieur Giguère.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Anyone else?

I did interject at least three times. You're right, I didn't say strike one, two, and three, but I did interject three times.

Ms. Sims, I have moved to you as a new speaker after Monsieur Giguère, and because I have done that, your point of order is not in order.

I see Monsieur Giguère is still on the list even after you.

That's not true?

[The Clerk]

No, Ms. Groguhé.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

But she's not here.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

She'll be back.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

She'll be back.

Rightly or wrongly, I have said that you're the new speaker, so that ends it with Monsieur Giguère.

He's free to speak again if he wishes.

I'm not going to go through all this. I have interjected three times.

Ms. Sims, you have the floor.

[Alain Giguère, NDP, Marc-Aurèle-Fortin, QC]

Mr. Chair, we have a serious problem here. A parliamentarian has the right to speak for as long as he or she likes. In the same breath, you said that my comments were interesting. You may not find them as relevant as you'd like, but show me where in the blues someone else made the point I am making. And that point is the dichotomy that O'Brien and Bosc explain from pages 60 to 96 of their reference work.

The fact that you don't like my point of view doesn't give you the authority to take away my freedom of speech. What I'm saying is relevant. O'Brien and Bosc are, after all, relevant.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Monsieur Giguère, the problem is that I've already ruled that Ms. Sims's point of order is out of order because I have moved to her.

I am not going to get into you debating.... Quite frankly, my rationale in each of the three times—at least three times—that I interjected was that I did not believe your comments were relevant to this debate.

Ms. Sims, you have the floor.