Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 13th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Christopherson, I know you're substituting for someone here. I understand that. We had considerable discussions last week and yesterday on this issue. That puts you at a disadvantage.

I've said over and over that it's the obligation of your colleagues to brief you on what has and hasn't been discussed. Maybe they haven't, but if you repeat the debate that has already gone on, I'm going to move on.

You have indicated that you don't like that reason. That's been challenged and the ruling stands, so I will give you a further opportunity to make your submissions.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Fine, I will continue.

We've had the minister sitting there as a player on the government side at a committee where ministers aren't allowed to sit per se. He was here participating, but not as a formal member.

We have a structure that is designed to ensure that the rest of us who aren't on the executive council have an opportunity to have meaningful input into these bills.

One of my major concerns is this crossover between the rights of individual members, through private members' bills—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I have a point of order from Mr. Opitz.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Could we get clarification from the clerk on the admissibility of ministers siting as members of a committee?

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That's great. Well done.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Excuse me?

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Can we get clarification on a minister....

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I don't understand.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

A minister can be signed in to sit on a committee, right?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Yes.

[Ted Opitz, Conservative, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

We just need clarification on that point, that's all. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have a point of order, Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Ms. Freeman indicated that the comments Mr. Christopherson is making have never been made before. They have been. I'm not sure if she was being subbed at the time.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Chair, I'd like to hear them because I don't remember them. Could you refresh my memory?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I will, because then we won't have to hear them again, right?

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

Just give her the page number.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You know what? Mr. Dykstra, you can do a little bit, but I'm not going to let you read pages and pages.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

No problem. Mr. Harris, who actually is your colleague sitting right beside you, could have mentioned to you that he said, “private members' bills that are presented in good faith by private members, which are dealt with in a committee within a timeframe as set out in the rules of the House, and then have somebody”—referring to the minister—“hijack the bill and turn it into something else.”

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Chair, I have not heard a reference to actually—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm sorry, we're in a point of order, Ms. Freeman. Just be patient. You'll have another point of order. I'll recognize you, but right now Mr. Dykstra is speaking.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Ms. Groguhé said, “This study, Madam Chair, was marred by the desire of the government to significantly change the content and scope of the bill, all orchestrated by the Minister of Citizenship, Immigration and Multiculturalism. He came and dictated amendments in committee, which were subsequently deposited entirely by his parliamentary secretary”.

Mr. Christopherson's argument is that this hasn't been brought up before. It has actually been brought up by the individual who sits right next door to Ms. Freeman, so I think I've pretty much clarified that this argument has been made already.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

On the same point of order, Ms. Freeman.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you for recognizing me on the same point of order. I'm sorry I interrupted earlier.

I believe this is not actually the point my colleague, Mr. Christopherson, was making. My colleague, Mr. Christopherson, was talking about the minister actually sitting on the committee as a member, which happened, I believe, on Wednesday or early morning on Thursday last week. That is what we were talking about.

I didn't hear the parliamentary secretary actually refer to that. If he can find us talking about that prior to this moment, then that would be great, but I haven't heard it.

[Costas Menegakis, Conservative, Richmond Hill, ON]

That's not true.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Can I finish my last quote?