Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 13th, 2013

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

The chair is moving on to the ruling. I went through this book we are given for bedtime reading, and it is very clear that the chair does not rule on privilege. The member makes his case to the committee and the committee members get to speak—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm going to make a ruling. I pointed it out to you at the very outset that it's my duty and my obligation to determine —whether the matter raised does in fact touch on a question of privilege. You're right—

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Chair, it's very difficult for you to rule when you are part of the privilege.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You know, I find I'm debating this with you. It's not a matter of debate. I've waited very patiently for you to finish your comments. You've finished your comments and now I'm going to make my comments.

You referred to O'Brien and Bosc, page 143, for example, which states that a matter of privilege must be raised at the first occasion. You have done that. You have raised it at the first occasion.

There's a definition of “privilege” at page 145, which says the situation:

...infringed upon any Member's ability to perform his or her parliamentary functions or appears to be a contempt against the dignity of Parliament.

That's the definition. I therefore have to listen to and comment on what you have said. In my opinion, I have given a lot of latitude to all members.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Chair, with due respect—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm in the middle of commenting. You've had your time, and now it's my turn to make some comments.

The chairman of the committee has given a lot of latitude to all members, government and opposition members, related to this issue that is now before us. I've given a lot of latitude.

It's been quite clear that you can talk on this topic as many times as you wish, and indeed you are talking on this topic as many times as you can, as long as it fits in with the rulings that have been made and upheld by this committee—in other words, the issues of relevancy and not having duplication.

Therefore, I'm taking the position that it is not a point of privilege, and now we will carry on with committee business.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Chair, with due respect, may I just draw your attention to page 1050 in House of Commons Procedure and Practice?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Page 1050.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

Is this a new point of order that Ms. Sims is making, or is she now taking into question the ruling you just made?

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

It's “Questions of Privilege in Committee”.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I've already made a ruling.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I have a point of order then, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I've already made a ruling. I don't want to keep going on this. You are free to do what you like. You can go to the Speaker; you can do whatever you like.

Go ahead, Ms. Sitsabaiesan.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Two instances in O'Brien and Bosc clearly stipulate that, and I quote from chapter 20 in the committees section, “Questions of Privilege in Committee”:

The Chair of a committee does not have the power to rule on—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

A point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're going to carry on with the committee business.

I've made a ruling on this issue, and we're not going to continue debating it, whether the chairman is right or whether the chairman is wrong.

I'm not going to listen to any more people reading from this holy book. We've finished with that. I've made the ruling—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

You don't have the authority—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

We're now going to proceed with the debate on the main—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

Respectfully, Mr. Chair, you don't have the authority to make a ruling here.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Please, Ms. Sitsabaiesan—

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

According to the rule book here—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Please, Ms. Sitsabaiesan, I've made the ruling and I'm not going to listen to any more.

[Rathika Sitsabaiesan, NDP, Scarborough—Rouge River, ON]

I challenge the chair on that ruling because the chair does not have the authority to make a ruling. According to the rules, the chair does not have the authority to make a ruling.

[Jack Harris, NDP, St. John's East, NL]

Sir, I'd like to suggest that this matter be reported to the House because—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

A point of order.

You just made a ruling, Chair, and twice now the opposition members have started talking again after you've specifically stated that they need to speak to either a new point of order or they need to move back to the motion that's on the table.

I also heard a challenge of the chair. We haven't voted on that. That's actually not debatable. I'd be happy if we had the vote or I'd be happy if we moved on, but I'm not going to sit here and listen to anyone in the opposition who's going to speak to the exact same point of order that you've just three times said you've already made a decision on.