Evidence of meeting #84 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
There's never been any clause-by-clause debate, as you indicated. There have been no amendments made because that time hasn't happened.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
I'm not restricting you from continuing to discuss it, although you are repeating yourself to a certain degree. I just wanted to point out to you that there has never been clause-by-clause debate on this matter, and certainly, to my knowledge, no one has submitted any amendments.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC
As you said, Chair, the clause-by-clause could not take place because the amendments that were brought forward by government were ruled out of order. Because they were ruled out of order, at that stage the committee could have addressed—
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
Ms. Sims, that's not true. There have never been any amendments brought to this committee. There's never been any ruling by the chairman on any amendments. You're free to say things, but you have to be accurate in what you're saying. You're suggesting that I made some rulings on some amendments that never happened. There were no amendments.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC
Chair, I'm just trying to revisit what we did at committee. At committee we heard all the witnesses. Then we, both sides, had amendments we shared with each other.
4 p.m.
NDP
Mylène Freeman NDP Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC
On a point of order, Chair. I'm sorry, I don't want to annoying, but I actually really am confused.
At some point, my recollection—and please do contradict me if it was otherwise—is that while we were hearing witnesses, we were given amendments by the government side that would be brought forward.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
That's quite true, Ms. Freeman, but the amendments were never formally made by members of the government. They were never formally made. There was never any debate on the amendments and there was never any ruling on those amendments. You're quite right, the parliamentary secretary did distribute proposed amendments, but they were never formally introduced.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC
Chair, that leads me into the point I was trying to make. If the chair saw no amendments and there were no amendments, then why would we be going back to the House to seek an expansion of scope? Somebody ruled, and I do remember seeing those amendments, but the amendments were not in order, and I heard that from the chair. At that stage, there was a request made to the House to seek an expansion to the scope of the bill.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
I need a lot of help.
But I will say that my recollection of what happened was that there was an agreement by all parties that amendments proposed by the government—some amendments, but it didn't exclude them from making other amendments—and amendments by members of the opposition, if they saw fit, could be submitted to the legislative clerk, who isn't here but probably will come eventually. Copies of those amendments were distributed unofficially. They were never moved. The amendments of the opposition were never moved in this committee.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
They were never moved in this committee. The proposed amendments of the government were never moved. That's why I say there have never been any formal amendments introduced on the floor of this committee, and there certainly was never any debate.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC
Getting back to the point I was making, Chair, both the opposition and the government had amendments, which we submitted to the clerk, and before they could be debated or moved they were ruled out of order.
4 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Tilson
That's not true. There was never any formal.... You know, I've said this. How many times do I have to say this? There were never any formal amendments made by anyone. Proposed amendments were distributed—I'm going on a recollection, and someone can correct me—but there were amendments made certainly by the government and I think by the opposition. Those were distributed to the clerk for the purposes of determining if the clerk would be advising the chairman as to whether those amendments would be in order or out of order.
That was the extent of it. To propose amendments, there has to be a motion made on the floor. That never took place.
4 p.m.
NDP
Jinny Sims NDP Newton—North Delta, BC
There was somebody sitting at the front who said the amendments that were circulated went beyond the scope. That's why the committee ended up in a discussion about taking that to the House—
