Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 13th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I have no control over what goes on in the House. I do have some say as to what goes on in this committee. We have an opportunity to debate this motion in this place, in this committee, and I'm looking forward to hearing your debate.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Good. Me too.

Moving on, then, to my points, we have been talking about the 30 days. I have said that I'm opposed. I got out most of one reason before I was shut down. That reason, of course, spoke to the involvement of the ministers in private members' business.

I must say that at this point, Chair, I can't let this go any further without commenting on some of these rulings. I understand, for those who have been sitting here for some time—I've done it myself—that it's not—

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I have a point of order.

You know, I'd love it, truly, if Mr. Christopherson.... He's well-intentioned. He's a good speaker. He's a bright man. If he does have new information to bring to the table on this issue, I wouldn't mind hearing it.

But if he's just going to reiterate what his personal feelings are toward your interpretation of decisions that you've made during these committee hearings, there's a time and a place for that, and it isn't now.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You know, he's right, Mr. Christopherson. I've made rulings that some members of the House have liked. I have been challenged from both sides, by both the government and the opposition, and there's an opportunity to do that. Some of the rulings I've made have been challenged. Some have not.

You're talking about past history on rulings that I've made. I'm not interested in that. Well, I am interested because those rulings stand, but I am interested in hearing your comments with respect to this motion. I'm not interested in hearing what you think of my rulings.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Fair enough, but you are interested in my opinion on the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm looking forward to hearing your comments on the motion.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Good.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm not interested in hearing your comments on my rulings.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

No, I understood that. You were very clear. I was just re-emphasizing that you are interested in allowing me to state my personal opinion and view on the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I am.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Very good. That's all I wanted to establish.

I had been wrapping up by saying that one of my problems was the interference with the private member's bill process by ministers, and I was then going on to explain why I thought that was an important point. I was talking about it in the context of the Canadian Confederation and the way that we do committee work.

It's really troublesome that a mechanism that is in the House, that was created to allow non-executive council members—meaning non-cabinet ministers—an opportunity to actually generate laws.... It's a sacred right for many, particularly if you've been around for a while and you haven't had a chance to be in government and initiate government bills. It means an awful lot. It's also an opportunity to bring local matters to Parliament.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Christopherson.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I don't know what I'm going to do with you. I've already made a ruling on this.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You just said you wanted to hear my opinion and I'm giving it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I did. I said I was looking forward to hearing your debate on the motion, but you're going into an area that I have ruled on, in the past to you directly, as being out of order. That ruling has been made.

So if you have other points, I'd love to hear them. If you don't, we'll move on.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Well, I'm a little confused. You wanted me to stay away from comments on your ruling, and I get—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

But you're not, sir. You're not. You are returning to the areas that I have ruled out of order.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Very well. I'm responding to you, sir. I may not be doing it as quickly as you'd like, but I am responding in the best way I can, and I am clarifying—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Christopherson, as you know, it's not appropriate for committee members to get into a debate with the chairman of the committee. You may disagree or agree with me. I have made a ruling on what you're talking about now. I have made a ruling against what you're talking about now. If you have new matters, I and other members of the committee would be pleased to hear them.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I am trying to do that, sir.

I realize that it may not be in a fashion that people like, but I don't think there's anything out of order in merely trying to clarify my respect for your initial ruling that I not, while I have the floor now, continue to comment on your rulings. I am underscoring that I have respected that. I was moving on to your other request wherein you said you wanted to hear my opinion. I'm trying to do that, but I'm being boxed in by these rulings that decide what I can and cannot say.

So I'm left with returning over and over to the main reason that we're all here, which is to give my opinion on behalf of the constituents I represent. That's what you asked me to do. I did, and the first point I start to make, you're telling me that it's out of order because somebody else made that point some time ago. I am just having some difficulty finding out where I can debate.

Or is that the purpose, Chair? Is it meant to be—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm going to move on, Mr. Christopherson. I don't want to do this any more. If you have some more points—

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Okay. I'd like to be back on the list, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I'm going to move on.

Mr. Nicholls.

[David Christopherson, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Then I'll be put back on the list, Mr. Chair.