Citizenship and Immigration Committee on June 13th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Dykstra, go ahead.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

So if the House were to rise, as I was saying, Chairman, before June 21, this motion would actually put us in a position of not being able to introduce.

Our argument, and why we're against this motion, is that you should be granted, and this committee should be granted, the ability to actually.... When it votes on a motion, which you are going to report back to the House, no one's hands should be tied by this committee, by a motion, or an amendment that would actually tell you that you cannot introduce.

I'm not sure, Chairman, and I'd certainly like to hear from the clerk, if there has ever been.... I'm saying that somewhat rhetorically. She doesn't need to answer this question, or through you—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Is there a point of order?

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

No, no, I just wanted to get on the speakers list.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Oh. Welcome back to you.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Welcome back to you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You are on the speakers list.

[Mylène Freeman, NDP, Argenteuil—Papineau—Mirabel, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Dykstra.

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

I'm not sure if there ever has existed a motion with a day attached to it versus just giving the chairman the opportunity to introduce a motion that was passed at committee; that it actually ever defined a specific day that it would be allowed.

The stated purpose of the amendment isn't to be more generous. It isn't to allow for more time. It doesn't allow for flexibility. It simply sets a date of June 21. I've been here about eight years now, Mr. Chair, and as I recall, there has never been a day in the summer that we have actually sat on the final day as scheduled. Each and every year, we have risen on the day before the official date for the House to rise.

So the only purpose of this amendment is to thwart the government's efforts to, as they've indicated, move a motion of concurrence to be able to expand the days to allow for the private member's bill to be heard. The only purpose of the stated amendment is to ensure that, even if the motion were to pass, it would never be introduced because of the fixed timeframe surrounding the introduction from you and the reporting back of the vote on the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Mr. Dykstra, I'd like some help on this from all members of the committee. I've read the motion and I've read the amendment. You're making it clear that you're opposed to the amendment that says “that this request is to take place in the House on June 21, 2013.” The motion doesn't say when. So neither the motion or the amendment says.... Well, the amendment does. The amendment says, “that this request is to take place...on June 21, 2013.”

I don't know how appropriate it is for a chairman to make recommendations to a committee, but it just seems to me that if you're opposed to that, if you're opposed to the amendment, which you've indicated you are, shouldn't there be another amendment that says, “that the request take place in the House as soon as possible”?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

It has always been my understanding, Chairman, that is the case regardless.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

That's true, it may be. But the motion doesn't say that. The motion—it could be any time. So therefore if you're....

I'm just following your argument. I'm getting into an area that I don't like to get into and that's debating with a member of the committee as chairman. But it just seems to me that if you don't like that and you want to be specific, there should be an amendment by somebody that says that this request be made as soon as possible. What are your comments on that?

[Rick Dykstra, Conservative, St. Catharines, ON]

My comments would be that it would surprise me. You've been the chair of this committee as long as I've been the parliamentary secretary. I've never seen you attempt to delay the introduction of the committee's work into the House. We take that as a given, that any chair, or any person who would be sitting in the seat that you are, would not, for an untoward reason or any reason other than trying to get the committee's work done, not introduce it as soon as possible.

It would be my instructions, and normally I would follow up with a comment, Chair, that whenever we do pass, whether it be a study, a government bill, or a private member's bill, that upon completion of the vote, we have a brief discussion of what the next steps are going to be. The opposition and the government submit their “what should happen next in terms of introduction” and you always let us know how you're going to proceed with the motion, the private member's bill, or the piece of government legislation.

My understanding is that we would do the same here. Upon completion of the vote on the motion, we would turn to you and have a discussion. You would let us know and we give you the prerogative to be able to let us know when you're going to do it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You're right.

On a point of order, Mr. Lamoureux.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Chair, I do think that there's some benefit in terms of having this clarification on the issue. What happens if the committee were to pass the motion, the original motion? Let's say for the sake of argument that the amendment is defeated. You go on to the main motion. Then you report it to the House. Does that automatically then give it the 30 days' extension, or is there a debate that would occur?

The only reason I'm bringing it up is because it's very time sensitive, of course, with the 21st being a key date. Is it just assumed that we're granted the extension? I don't quite understand that.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

The House decides whether the 30-day extension is going to be made. If it does, it would start on the date that the committee asks for the extension.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

When you say the House decides, does that mean it takes the form of some sort of a motion? Is there a vote or is it just something when you go in and you say our committee reported? Do we know?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

All these matters are done by vote.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

So the government would then have to bring in some sort of a....

I'm just thinking it might help facilitate in terms of what's happening in the committee if we understood that after we've done our job in terms of reporting whatever.... Do you know what I mean? It's not to....

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Well, you know…I don't know why we'd get into that area. We're talking about debate on an amendment, and you're going somewhere else. It may be interesting to talk about, but I don't think it has anything to do with the debate on the amendment that Mr. Dykstra is in the middle of.

We're trying to move on—

Is this on the same point?

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I just saw Ms. Sims, Ms. James, then Madam Groguhé.

On this same point, Ms. Sims, go ahead.

[Jinny Sims, NDP, Newton—North Delta, BC]

I just want to be clear, Chair. I don't have the same experience you have, so I'm turning to your experience to give us some guidance.

If this motion were to pass here, let's say by Tuesday—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

I don't want to go there. We're talking about—