Absolutely.
Evidence of meeting #21 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was abuse.
A video is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #21 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was abuse.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
Thank you.
Ms. Fakhri, I saw you nodding, but I want to get you to say with your mike on if you think the two-year conditional permanent residency is increasing the vulnerability of women who are in an abusive situation as a consequence.
5:10 p.m.
Crisis Intervention Counsellor, Herizon House Women's Shelter
Yes, it definitely does.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
5:10 p.m.
Crisis Intervention Counsellor, Herizon House Women's Shelter
Maybe we need to change it differently because we can't just put conditions on the women, we need to work more with the abuser, with the man.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
That's great. Thank you.
Ms. Fakhri, in your opening remarks you spoke a lot about arranged marriages, but you kept on saying that people are forced into that situation. I want a clarification.
Ms. Niazi, in your opening remarks you spoke about arranged marriages and proxy marriages. I wonder if you can clarify for us an arranged marriage, a forced marriage, and a proxy marriage, please
5:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Afghan Women's Organization
I think there's a fine line between arranged marriages and forced marriages. In forced marriages women usually don't consent; they are forced to go into a relationship with somebody. But in arranged marriages, the family will find a match with the consent of the bride and the groom themselves. They have their own conversation, they talk and they agree, and then this marriage is arranged.
I think it's like the marriage services we have here. Somebody told us at our organization, just arrange the interviews for people to get married. That is definitely arranged by the family members. Of course, I don't say that it's 100% successful. We have seen lots of successes in that and some failures as well. There have been mistakes, as happens with love marriages as well.
Also, I spoke about proxy marriages. Proxy marriages, especially for the refugees who cannot go back to their country or who cannot...this is also something. At the beginning I was also a little worried about that, but now I see many proxy marriages that have been very successful. The sponsor has provided unconditional support for their spouses who are sponsored here. Most of them work because they know each other. They cannot just do it by phone or by...and it doesn't make a difference if you're sitting together at the same table or you are doing it by phone.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
Thank you.
So arranged marriages are consented to by both parties, and in forced marriages one of the parties is not consenting.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
So maybe, Ms. Fakhri, some of the examples you were citing were situations of forced marriages and were being called arranged marriages erroneously.
In your testimony also, Ms. Fakhri, you came up with a brilliant suggestion, I think, when you spoke of the person being sponsored having money transferred directly into an account in their name. Of course, if it's a sponsorship relationship, then the sponsor is responsible for that person, so the government wouldn't be able to do it. I think we may want to consider making that part of the sponsorship process so it reduces the vulnerability and increases the financial independence for the person being sponsored. Thank you for that suggestion.
Also, I don't remember who it was, one of the three of you spoke of language and education.
It was you as well, Ms. Fakhri.
I have to disagree on a personal experience level. I grew up in—
5:10 p.m.
Crisis Intervention Counsellor, Herizon House Women's Shelter
Can you clarify what you meant by that, please?
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
I don't believe that just because you know English or you don't know English or French—
5:10 p.m.
Crisis Intervention Counsellor, Herizon House Women's Shelter
Sorry, that was not my point.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
—that you're going to be a victim of violence. Having or not having language, English or French in this country, is not going to prevent a woman from being abused. I grew up in Canada, speak English, I think very well, have a master's degree and have been a victim of violence. I don't think that's accurate for anybody to say.
I know you wanted to say something, so the 20 seconds or whatever I have is all yours.
5:15 p.m.
Crisis Intervention Counsellor, Herizon House Women's Shelter
What I said was after women arrive in Canada, English classes should be mandatory. That way her family or her husband will not prevent her from attending English classes.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Rathika Sitsabaiesan NDP Scarborough—Rouge River, ON
So it's not a condition of sponsoring.
Thank you.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON
Thank you very much.
I, as well, would like to thank you all for being here.
I have been doing a little quiz. I think the NDP did my work for me this time. Each of the 18 witnesses.... When asked whether you favour or not the two-year conditional program, I think all three of you said no. Our numbers now are 18 say no, and two say yes. If the government goes by the evidence, we won't have that around much longer. That's a big if.
Ms. Fakhri, I may have misunderstood you. I think you said that in the case of arranged marriages you're more likely to get domestic violence. Did you say that?
5:15 p.m.
Crisis Intervention Counsellor, Herizon House Women's Shelter
I said when arranged marriages turn to forced marriages...,which happens in lots of cases especially when the girls are younger. Arranged marriages happen through the encouragement of the family. After a while if the girl disagrees and she's pushed by the family, that is when it turns from an arranged marriage to a forced marriage.
