Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Feb. 26th, 2015

[Denise Amyot]

Yes, absolutely.

As you know, the government wants to double the number of international students. We are on the right road to make it happen, because now we have 300,000 students, and I'm very pleased to say that we have a number of those who are students coming into colleges, whether for diploma certificates or degrees or post-graduate diplomas. We organize recruitment campaigns where we go with different colleges across the country that are interested and have room to accommodate and receive international students. We have websites. We use social media.

We also work with CIC to accelerate the process for visas through a program that is specific to colleges, which is called SPP, student partners program, a special program. We are very pleased about that. We have it for India, for example, and for China. We are looking at doing it for other countries right now.

If I may, I will talk about express entry because you are giving me a great opportunity to talk about it. We really appreciate the new platform that is created by express entry, because it's like a just-in-time approach. We anticipate that due to language, age, education, and experience requirements, international student graduates will be able to integrate into Canada in an easier way.

That said, I also want to say there have been some questions brought forward by some of our colleges. They say it could be difficult for college graduates to obtain job offers supported by labour market information assessments, and because of that they would not be competitive and may be unable to attain permanent residency. So CIC—as I told you, we have a good relationship with them—told us they will monitor the process. They have asked us to also monitor the process and let them know if there are any issues that arise so they can modify the policy accordingly.

I will flag one thing, though. Right now, when you look at the express entry process, there are more points if you are a university graduate than if you are a college graduate. Sometimes in our country, because of the need for technologists or technicians in some specific areas, it would be more for college students, so if we could equilibrate, balance, have the same number of points given to college students as are given to university students, we would contribute even further to the economy of the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, Ms. Amyot.

Ms. Mathyssen is next.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you so much for being here. We appreciate the expertise, because this study is very important to future planning and we simply have to get it right.

I'm just going to throw out questions. Perhaps my questions will be more in line with Madam Hussein and Mr. Al-Adeimi's expertise, but, Madam Amyot, if you would like to interject as well, that would be fine.

I'll start with you, Nooralhooda. You talked about how important it is that we welcome refugees and that they are going to make an incredible difference in terms of the kind of society that we're able to build. In that regard, I'm wondering about the folks who arrive at your agency. One thing I heard last weekend at a meeting was that the new rules with regard to the amount of time that you're here impacting your citizenship is of concern. For example, it used to be 1,095 days out of 1,460 or three years out of four years that—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Excuse me. I'll just stop the clock for a minute.

I'm sorry, Ms. Mathyssen, but they are having trouble hearing what you're saying.

Okay, you're back on.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was at a meeting this past weekend, and there was concern about the change in rules regarding time being present in Canada. It was three of four years, and now it's four of six.

More than one of the people in the room said that the difficulty is—and CIC has identified this—that when people come, they don't have Canadian work experience, and therefore they can't get a job. Without a job, they can't get that experience.

One individual had settled his family here. They were looking, as Mr. Al-Adeimi said, for a safe and secure place, and he was very happy with that. But he has to travel back to their place of origin in order to find work. He has to feed his family. He has to pay his mortgage or his rent, and he's very upset about that.

Are you hearing about that catch-22 with regard to people who are desperately looking for work and who need to support their families?

[Mohamed Al-Adeimi]

That's a good question. A lot of changes have taken place in the past few years with regard to Citizenship and Immigration programs and services.

Individuals who came here before those changes had their own plans and thoughts about how they could be mobile. Mobility is important these days for immigrants looking for opportunities.

The irony of the whole thing is that the person has chosen a certain community, and has chosen Canada as his or her country. The expectation is that this person will stay.

On a daily basis we are faced with newcomers. They knock on our doors and talk a lot about their difficulties whether they're about getting jobs or settling in or moving. We also see the other areas. People come here and want to leave their families here, and then go and continue. This is put on the shoulders of front-line workers, settlement workers. They get many people asking about the changes and what's happening.

We try to align most of this information we provide them with the changes that are happening, and try to give them accurate information. We have done that throughout the years as people have heard from friends and families and so on, and they have done a lot of things that are not as per the requirements they have signed up for in order to migrate here.

We have worked with the immigrant communities and have been very much involved in the London community in this regard, in order to make them understand that they should move from friends' and families' inaccurate information to the accurate and timely information they can get from CIC settlement agencies.

Getting accurate information is very important. I look at it as something that definitely has an impact on the prosperity of individuals. Thank you for doing that, and for meeting with the communities and trying to listen to them.

We see this on a daily basis. Most of the burden of agony and feelings of frustration is absorbed by the settlement workers. They are very creative and very passionate workers who throughout the years have been well trained, and, through their training, they are able to provide accurate information and referrals.

I hope this definitely is something that we.... It's on an individual basis, and we cannot talk about it.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

You have one minute.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

One of the issues that keeps coming up in my office over and over are the roadblocks to family reunification.

Is that something that you see in your work? What's the impact on the economy of not being able to bring family members over?

[Mohamed Al-Adeimi]

Definitely, Canada is one of the countries that always helps people unify their families.

I remember once when I was travelling I saw a person who worked in Europe. We were going to attend a conference. He told me he was going to immigrate to Canada because he'd be able to bring his family. This assists in having well-settled individuals who are going to succeed. Our communities will be able to retain newcomers if they are able to unite with their families and are able to work with peace of mind.

Keep in mind that a lot of individuals, even high school students whose children come from Korea and different places, expect that once their children succeed here, they will be able to bring their families for sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Thank you, sir.

Mr. McCallum, you have up to five minutes, sir.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you to the witnesses for being with us.

I'd like to ask Ms. Amyot questions about international students and permanent residents. I think we would all agree that, particularly with our aging population, we need immigrants and these international students are almost the perfect candidates. They're young, they're educated, they have Canadian experience, and other countries are in competition for them.

My contention would be that in at least three areas the government has inhibited this. First, it has inhibited this by removing their 50% credit for time in Canada to become a citizen. Second, in terms of the job market, they now require a labour market impact assessment, LMIA, in some cases, to get a job, whereas they didn't before. Sometimes the firm might not think it was worth it to hire a foreign student now that they have this additional impediment. Third, the government has removed certain occupational classes as being eligible to become permanent residents. In certain cases students have come here and invested money. They've invested maybe two or three years of study in Canada with the hope of becoming a permanent resident on the basis of a specific occupation, and then all of a sudden they're told that occupation is no longer eligible. I would think we're shooting ourselves in the foot in these areas.

I would ask you to comment on anything you wish. In particular, on the question of the changes in occupation, would it not be fair and appropriate to have some sort of grandfathering system so if you change the occupations that are eligible that would be for the future? For those who have already spent some time in Canada and invested their time and money on this path for them suddenly to be deprived of that seems very unfair.

[Denise Amyot]

Definitely it would be good if the students could be grandfathered.

The other thing I want to mention is the success that we have seen so far. There are about 3 out of 10 students who decide to stay. More and more students want to come to stay. Before they couldn't mention it, but now it is recognized that they can say it and it won't be held against them.

I talked earlier about two of the issues that we see right now. One, which we're not sure will have a negative impact, is express entry. It's very positive with respect to the approach, but we are concerned that the number of points is different for college students versus university students, when in fact some of those college students are the ones we need in the job market. That's one of the areas where we believe there could be a change, and it could be a very positive change, and we would all benefit.

Of course, there is this new fee for employers and students that just emerged last week, which our members have found out about. We believe that this could be detrimental to the students. Obviously, there are some employers who will say, “Look, I'm used to taking so many students every semester.” They may rethink their willingness to take those students, and those students need the job experience in Canada in order to have more points to come.

I believe that with the relationship we have with Citizenship and Immigration they will take that into account, because this is very new. We believe that there could be a change in that. We are asking that they change this in order to accommodate those students and those employers, because those employers also need those students.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

You did say you think the people whose occupations have been eliminated should be grandfathered. In the colleges that you represent, have you found this to be an issue with a large number of students?

[Denise Amyot]

I don't have the data specifically for across the country per occupation, but this is certainly a comment that we have heard by different members. You see, we also have what we call the bridging program. I don't know how familiar the committee is with the bridging program.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

If you can be very brief. We're way over time, so just conclude.

[Denise Amyot]

Okay.

The bridging program is really to help fill the gaps in the competencies of the people who arrive in Canada. Colleges are quite active in helping the people who have some credentials from another country and then they need to have some cross-cultural programs and some adaptations in their training, and so on. They take this for periods that vary from 12 weeks to a year. This has been very successful.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you.

[Denise Amyot]

Sorry.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you for your indulgence.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Don't be sorry, we just have a clock to fight here, that's all.

Mr. Leung.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

I wish to direct my questions to Madam Amyot regarding the Canadian immigrant integration program. When I first came to Canada back in the late sixties, there was no such program. There were actually no resettlement services at all. I notice that your program was initially launched as a pilot project in 2007, and obviously it's very successful.

I need you to address four issues.

First, you talked about the pre-arrival service in the country of origin. How do you move your resources to the right country? The immigration pattern has changed over the last decade or so, or will change even as we look into the future.

Second, I'd like to know what is either a quantitative or qualitative measuring tool that you use to ensure that this program is indeed achieving the successes you want.

Third, I'd like you to elaborate on or discuss what your criteria for successful economic integration are, and how long you track it.

Those are my three questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Tilson]

Can anybody tell me anything?

[Denise Amyot]

I heard three questions. You said you had four, and I'm not sure if I missed the fourth one.

[Chungsen Leung, Conservative, Willowdale, ON]

That has to do with the measurement of successful integration.