Evidence of meeting #101 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was irb.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Aterman  Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board
Greg Kipling  Director General, Policy, Planning and Corporate Affairs Branch, Immigration and Refugee Board
Donnalyn McClymont  Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Senior Personnel Secretariat, Privy Council Office

11:50 a.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Why not?

11:50 a.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

That's not necessarily a matter that affects their own performance.

For example, the SOGIE guidelines we issued are given to all members. They're aimed at addressing the issues of how you question people in a respectful manner.

11:50 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

I can't agree with that. But you've given your answer.

How does the training evolve over time to address trends that arise out of the complaints process?

11:55 a.m.

Director General, Policy, Planning and Corporate Affairs Branch, Immigration and Refugee Board

Greg Kipling

One consideration I think that responds to your question, relates to systemic—

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Essentially, I've asked the same question twice.

11:55 a.m.

Director General, Policy, Planning and Corporate Affairs Branch, Immigration and Refugee Board

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

It's the way I do this.

11:55 a.m.

Director General, Policy, Planning and Corporate Affairs Branch, Immigration and Refugee Board

Greg Kipling

In addition to the individual inquiries that might be made with respect to any individual complaint, we are undertaking systemic reviews of the quality of decision-making and the process generally on a regular basis. They are produced for each division, and are used for management purposes, including potential tweaks to procedures and to training.

I think we are responsive to trends, is my point.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Are IRB members staffed individually or are they supported through a pool of support staff or is it a mix?

11:55 a.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

There is support staff who assist them with things like case preparation, so that's the function of the registry. There is support staff who assist them with respect to the production of decision-making, be it the clerical and administrative side of that. Then they have legal advisers who they can consult on questions of law in their decisions.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Does the IRB currently have enough support staff to adequately support a full complement of IRB members, if and when all the vacancies are filled?

11:55 a.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

How many are there?

11:55 a.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

How many support staff?

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Yes.

11:55 a.m.

Acting Chairperson, Immigration and Refugee Board

Paul Aterman

I don't have a number off the top of my head.

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Well maybe you can give that to the clerk, too.

The 2018-19 interim estimates flagged $118.9 million for the IRB, and that's more or less the same amount that was in last year's main estimates for the same time period. Considering the backlog that you've had, why are you not seeking more monies? I know you're talking about the $70-some-odd million in the budget, but you didn't ask for it in the estimates. It was the same last year as this year, so if there is a problem, unless there is no money problem.... Can you explain why that happened?

11:55 a.m.

Director General, Policy, Planning and Corporate Affairs Branch, Immigration and Refugee Board

Greg Kipling

We identified a need for additional funding that resulted in the decision in budget 2018, and we will be able to access those funds to increase our decision-making capacity.

There is always a question around what the future intake is going to be, and—

11:55 a.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Well, I ask that because there is clearly a problem, and yet nothing was asked for.

11:55 a.m.

Director General, Policy, Planning and Corporate Affairs Branch, Immigration and Refugee Board

Greg Kipling

Certainly the intake and the capacity of the board are issues that we are constantly monitoring and are sharing with our partners in the department.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Thank you, Mr. Kipling.

To finish this round, I would like to ask if Ms. Alleslev would just take three minutes now so that I could have Ms. Kwan have three minutes to close. Would that be okay?

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

Anything for you, Mr. Chair.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Well, thank you. Then we can complete our whole round. Thank you.

11:55 a.m.

Liberal

Leona Alleslev Liberal Aurora—Oak Ridges—Richmond Hill, ON

A lot of the questions have been tap dancing around two central themes. One is around the structural, systemic process, not only from the personnel evaluation review, but to the complaints process. Then there are the individual specifics of how we address complaints and how that process comes back.

Around the structural process, the complaint is the last line of defence. We know that people don't always make complaints, and we know that's not a reflection of how well the system is doing because of all the reasons people don't come forward with complaints.

How are you ensuring that managers and the managers of managers are reviewing all of those individuals so that, if there is a pattern of behaviour, we catch it even if there isn't a complaint?