Citizenship and Immigration Committee on July 24th, 2018

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

I think decorum is required. Unfortunately, when I have the floor and I am discussing.... I extended courtesy to the opposition when they were going on, and I think that courtesy needs to be extended to me when I am questioning the witness.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

I would just remind all members that we were dangerously close to my actually gavelling on decorum on the last questioner, so I would just ask all members to please use appropriate parliamentary decorum.

Ms. Rempel, go ahead.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, I have been, on many occasions, told to act nice and be nicer, and to watch my tone—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Not by me.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

—and frankly, just in defence of my female colleague here, I'm really glad that she took the tone she did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

That point of order is not debatable.

Mr. Anandasangaree, would you like to continue?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you.

As a member of Parliament for Toronto, I've had a number of opportunities to meet with some of the asylum seekers, as have you.

Can you indicate to us the specific ask from the City of Toronto, what our federal response has been, and what the other levels of government have or have not done?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

The specific request was for $65 million to deal with identified housing pressures that have emerged since last October. We immediately gave $11 million as we moved toward understanding exactly what federal dollars, provincial dollars, and city dollars had or hadn't reached the new surge.

We are in touch with the city on a virtually day-to-day basis. We were visiting the shelters last week. I was with shelter workers yesterday in a different shelter in the afternoon to talk about the surge and make sure that subpopulations are being served. For example, the LGBTQ community is also part of this migrant search, and we have to make sure that shelter capacity in all sectors of the shelter system is there. To be specific to the point that was just made, we're in touch with the city on a day-by-day basis. We don't schedule meetings; we meet. We meet and engage and make sure that the dollars and the supports are there and are flowing.

We continue, as well, to talk to the province. And we continue, as well, to talk to other shelter providers and other municipalities. I was talking with a member of the Nipissing housing authority, which has shelter space and housing space in North Bay, and making sure that the immigration department knew about that. As well, we tied them into the rehousing strategy. We are working on this every single day, because, quite frankly, it's intolerable that children are in a hotel or in a shelter. They need to be in a home, close to schools, and getting ready to be supported. That's the work we're doing day by day.

Does it require a 10 o'clock meeting and a telephone schedule that can be presented to a committee? No, it requires constant effort, constant attention, and constant investment in those areas. We have assured the City of Toronto that they will not be left hanging as they have been for the last 10 years by a government that didn't commit dollars to homelessness, didn't commit money to shelters, and didn't commit money to housing.

A final point I'd like to make is that one of the big losses in the last 10 years was the last Paul Martin budget, for which Jack Layton negotiated additional housing dollars and then voted against the budget and denied close to $200 million a year to go into the housing system. All parties have failed on this file. We all have to look at ourselves in the mirror and understand that the housing crisis, which is at the root of the issue we're dealing with in Toronto right now, is something that has emerged over the last 30 years. It started with Brian Mulroney's housing cuts in 1988. It was not helped by the NDP at Queen's Park when they made cuts to the repair of social housing and started the capital repair backlog in housing. All parties and all politicians contributed to this. The question is, what are we going to do to get out of it?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

What's hindering Toronto's ability, or our ability as a federal government, to resettle or move some of the folks from Toronto, particularly those who are currently at Centennial or Humber, into, say, Nipissing or other areas?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

My colleague from British Columbia identified it. It's hard to build housing quickly, and it's hard, once you've built it, to make sure it's always in the place where you will necessarily need it. Housing systems have to be sustained. They can't simply be sparked quickly. That's why the investments we made before introducing the national housing strategy started as soon as we took office. It was to get the housing sector building again.

We've had great success in some communities. We're struggling in others, Toronto being one of them. Victoria, with a $90-million investment, with the municipality, the province, and the federal government at the table, will effectively have reduced homelessness to functionally zero within two years. When all three levels of government work together, with the federal dollars that are there, with the provincial commitment, which is strong right now in B.C., and with the municipalities leading and fine-tuning the process, we are starting to see great results in Calgary, in London, and in Hamilton. However, there are certain jurisdictions that are magnets for a whole series of housing pressures and that have housing markets that are very hot. In those areas, there is a stubbornness to the housing crisis.

I can assure you that if we could get the numbers down to those we've seen with the shelter populations in Quebec, where you have 75% capacity, the pressure would come off the housing system in Toronto. We would resettle in an orderly way, particularly with children, and we would all be talking about a much different thing today.

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Thank you, Adam.

I'd like to pass the rest of my time to Nick Whalen.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you.

I was a bit surprised earlier at Ms. Rempel's cynicism, insinuating that somehow the asylum seekers are responsible for their need to be in hotels, or that somehow anybody wants asylum seekers to go into hotels, or that somehow previous governments aren't responsible for that core housing need.

Of course, Mr. Beuze, who was here from UNHCR, reminded committee members that politicians should not be scapegoating asylum seekers for political gain by blaming them for pre-existing problems.

Then, of course, Mr. Poilievre went along the same lines, again trying to insinuate that somehow asylum seekers are tied to the lack of housing supports and shelters.

You've described already for us some of the legacy, that all parties are responsible for the housing shortage, but I would like to understand how we are working with cities like Toronto to create affordable housing to meet the needs of society, including specifically asylum seekers in the surge, both into shelters and into actual housing. How does our national housing strategy for the country as a whole take asylum seekers and migrants into account?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You have 40 seconds.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

The $40-billion investment into the country's housing system has already been parcelled out in terms of the 10-year response in Ontario. Ontario and Toronto will figure out how the bulk of those dollars are spent in the city of Toronto.

There are three main pressures in the city of Toronto that have to be addressed. There's the capital repair backlog, which is at about $2.6 billion right now in the city of Toronto. There is a 100,000-person wait-list, which has been held steady for the last 10 years, in large part because of the ingenuity of city councils fast-tracking the approval of affordable housing projects in particular—I was on council to do that. Additionally, we have to move with much more flexibility on the homelessness strategy to prevent homelessness and also mitigate homelessness by flowing people out.

In terms of the hotels, the City of Toronto has used hotels to house families for the better part of 15 years now, closer to 20 years. That system sees the average family stay for about 3.1 months. Those numbers surge when there is an influx of families, as there currently is, but that system returns very quickly to a situation—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you, Mr. Vaughan. I need to stop you there.

Ms. Rempel, you have five minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions will relate to the system that has been put in place to bus people who have crossed at Roxham Road and claimed asylum. This is the system that the government is referring to as the triage system.

Earlier in testimony today, we heard that the government does not want to close the loophole on the safe third country agreement, and then we had my colleague use the words “the new normal” in terms of the particular situation that is happening at Roxham Road.

My question relates to the budgetary efficacy and the efficacy of the government's system. How many people is the government projecting will cross at Roxham Road for the remainder of 2018, and then into 2019, who will subsequently be bused and require temporary shelter?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I will refer those questions to the departments that manage those questions so you can get specific answers, and—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'm assuming you are here—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

—the new normal I referred to was displacement of population, not the situation at the border.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'm assuming you are here in your capacity as parliamentary secretary because you are supposed to be talking about the efficacy of your “triage system”, yet—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

As it relates to housing—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

—you cannot tell us how many people you are expecting to have to triage in the next year. Is that correct?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

What was seen is that the numbers crossing the border at that particular point have dropped now to below 40—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Actually—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

—and as a result of that, the number is fluctuating and, thankfully, getting smaller.