Citizenship and Immigration Committee on July 24th, 2018

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

He doesn't know.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

The situation is that the City of Toronto and the Province of Ontario receive funding to deal with the population and the shelter system. We have spent $200 million a year on HPS services across the country. I can't break that down as to how much of those dollars on a day-by-day basis is spent on—

[Pierre Poilievre]

I'm not asking for day by day.

Mr. Chair, the witness has said that he's not responsible, and I agree.

Thank you.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

That's not what I said.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Ms. Kwan, go ahead for seven minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

On the housing issue, I would like to first establish this fact. The housing crisis, as Mr. Vaughan indicated, really began in the mid-1990s, and of course Mr. Vaughan will know that in 1993 the federal Liberal government cancelled the national affordable housing program. That was under the Liberal government, under Paul Martin. As a result of that, this country lost more than half a million units of affordable housing that would otherwise have been built across the country. So imagine what our country would look like today if we had an additional half a million units of affordable or co-op housing. Therefore, the housing crisis we're in is in part a result of the Liberal government's action.

That said, we do have a situation, and I would argue that the need for affordable housing is across the board. I see it in my community in British Columbia, in Vancouver East, absolutely, but I see it across the country as well. This situation of course is challenged because of the asylum seekers coming over. Mr. Vaughan talked about a national affordable housing plan. Let me just establish this fact as well. It's good that the federal government has come back to the table—I will say that. However, 90% of the funding for that national affordable housing plan will not flow until after the next election, and that is a bit of a challenge as well—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

That's not true.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

—because we need the housing right now. As you all know, if you've dealt with housing in the non-profit sector—and I used to, prior to this life—when you build housing, it takes several years, at best, to get a project off the ground, especially if it involves rezoning. It takes sometimes five years, six years, or 10 years to get a project off the ground.

We have a housing crisis. Right now, the City of Toronto projects $65 million in terms of its cost to deal with the housing aspect of the irregular asylum seekers, a large portion of whom are going into hotels. I want to ask this question. Instead of putting that money into a hotel, which will be gone after people leave, why don't we invest that money in a permanent building: redirect that money, purchase a building, and make that available for asylum seekers when the influx is here? Then, when they're not here, you can make that available to local people for transition into permanent housing, or even regularize the refugee program as we've seen with the Syrian refugees. When they first came, many of them were also put in hotels. Instead of doing that, get a permanent building, or a series of permanent buildings, in which you can house asylum seekers and refugees coming through.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I couldn't agree with you more.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is that something, then—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

We have been trying to persuade, in particular, NDP members of Toronto City Council to stop building shelters and start building housing. I agree with you. That is the solution.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is that something you are advancing within your own government?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Absolutely.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

If so, have you offered the solution of purchasing permanent buildings for inland asylum seekers?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

Yes. The national housing strategy accommodates that. To correct the record, the tripling of the transfers to the provinces started in our first budget, so those dollars are being spent now as the 10-year program kicks in. It's actually a 12-year spending profile, and we have north of $4 billion already. The supports for cities that wish to purchase, rather than to rent hotels, is part of the national housing strategy. They can use those dollars to purchase rather than rent.

The trouble is that we have to move cities from the emergency response into a permanent structure of systemic response. The dollars we have put on the table that are being spent as we speak are doing just that. In fact, in the City of Vancouver—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

The $65 million—

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

The $90 million that was just invested in the City of Victoria effectively does that, and those dollars were spent this year.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Mr. Vaughan, it would be really helpful if you actually answered the question. Let me just establish this. Of the $65 million that the City of Toronto has put on the table and has said it needs for the inland asylum seekers, how much is the federal government going to pay?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

We have said we are prepared to sit down with the City of Toronto and examine exactly how to deliver the support they need. We are not walking away from that obligation. Given that—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Do you have a figure that you can offer of how much you will contribute toward that?

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

We have immediately transferred $11 million out of the first $50 million, and we are sitting down to review the request. We need to see the statistics and the data to see how it's being spent and to understand where other supports that flow through the province to the city are being spent in support of this. In terms of—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

All right, so let me ask you this question.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

In terms of the flexibility—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Please, I only have seven minutes. Don't waste my time.

[Adam Vaughan, Liberal, Spadina—Fort York, ON]

I didn't realize answering questions was wasting your time.