Citizenship and Immigration Committee on July 24th, 2018

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Okay, well then please jump in, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister Hussen, for being here; and Minister Blair, for coming back; and the officials again for coming back today.

Minister Hussen, my question goes to you. Earlier today we heard from the mayor of Chatham, Randy Hope, about how the asylum issue is actually, in his eyes, an opportunity for communities like Chatham. He talked about the demand for labour that exists in the community, labour that doesn't always require previous experience or high levels of education. Today, incidentally, the C.D. Howe Institute put out a briefing note called “Canada can benefit economically from the asylum seeker surge”.

I think all of this is relevant to the discussion. As I say, Mayor Hope sees an opportunity, not a crisis here but an opportunity, in the challenge before us. What do you say to mayors like him, like Mayor Hope, who lead a community that has been...? I'm not sure if you know a lot about the history of Chatham, but it's very close to London, Ontario. It has always shown a welcoming hand to refugees, going back all the way to the times of the underground railroad, and accepting many Syrian refugees. Mayor Hope is quite open to this. He sees it from a compassionate perspective, but he also, again, sees it from an economic perspective.

I know you've talked about many work permits being issued. If you could, centre on the whole issue of communities like his that see a real chance here for economic growth and jobs—jobs that are not being filled.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

The fact of the matter is that this is not a crisis; this is a challenge that many countries face, including Canada. We remain committed, as a government, to making sure that we apply Canadian laws and meet our international obligations. The opposition feels that we have to choose one or the other, but we feel that we can do both, and we have done both.

Second, we remain committed, as a country and as a government, to making sure that we don't turn back people who are seeking protection. We don't turn them back to persecution, torture, and death, because we have signed international conventions to make sure we don't do that. When we have responded as a country and as communities to provide protection to those folks, we have seen the contributions that they've been able to make as new citizens. We also, as part of Canadian law, make sure that those who are not in need of protection are also removed, that protection is only accorded to those who can prove their need for refugee protection.

I commend the mayor of Chatham and other municipal leaders for stepping up to assist these people, while they wait for their hearings, to be able to support themselves. The majority of asylum seekers want to work while they wait for their hearings, because they and we don't want folks to be a burden or to put pressures on provincial social programs.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, is there more time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

You have 15 seconds.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

I yield it to my friend Ms. Mendès.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair and Peter.

Welcome to both of you. Welcome, Mr. Blair, again.

I would like to go back to a comment made by the member for Calgary Nose Hill about the budgetary issues around welcoming, or facilitating if you wish, the due process for asylum claimants. The member claims that this would be outside of the budgetary forecasts that were done. I believe that, no, we always have a margin within our budgets to deal with unplanned cases. It's almost the same issue with the question of housing for the 800 people in Toronto who have to leave dormitories.

First of all, I don't think asylum is ever a planned issue for anybody. Nobody plans to seek asylum. They're always forced into that situation. As a country that is seen by others as a haven and a welcoming place for asylum seekers, well, we can have an idea from year to year that we are going to welcome 15,000 or 20,000, more or less, but we can't really give an exact number of how many we're going to receive every day, every week, or every month. We have to keep a certain flexibility and capacity to adjust to whatever needs present themselves at the border in this instance.

Would you address the budgetary issue, Minister Hussen, just to reassure our colleagues that this is all within the current budget and that it's not outside of the—

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Absolutely.

We've budgeted $173.2 million towards irregular migration. One of the key pieces in that allocation is $74 million for the Immigration and Refugee Board precisely so that claims can be heard faster, so that we can have a much fairer, faster, and final system. That's important. Folks who have a legitimate claim for refugee status can get faster decisions made and then move on with their lives. Those who do not have a legitimate claim for Canada's protection can also be removed faster.

I think what our government disagrees on fundamentally with the opposition.... They're beating around the bush on this. They're not coming out and saying it, but they don't fundamentally believe we should live up to our international obligations with respect to asylum claimants. These are international obligations that we have signed on to, and that are now embedded in Canadian law, so providing due process to these people is part of Canadian law. It's not a choice, as you've heard from the provincial minister and others. As a country, we are obligated to make sure that if an individual claims asylum, we accord them due process.

Having said that, as we move forward we do have a plan in place based on last year's experience. That plan is premised not only on further investments in the IRB, but also on collaborating with the provinces, making sure that asylum seekers are able to support themselves by providing them with work permits so they are able to work while they wait for their hearings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Thank you.

That's it.

I would like to take the prerogative as chair to ask one question. It's not really tongue in cheek, but it's on this economic issue.

We are hearing about a need for provinces to have some sharing of the burden and the willingness of the government to.... Have any of the provinces offered to reimburse the federal government for the costs of refugee processing due to the huge economic advantage they will receive over 10 or 20 years from the likes of people around this table who have been received as refugees?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, no—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Not yet.

Thank you.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

—the provinces haven't really been broached that, but it's a good question.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

It wasn't totally in jest. We think about an economic balance. I'm an accountant. We think about the balance sheet.

Mr. Poilievre, for five minutes.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Minister, I would like to know how many people have crossed the border illegally since your government took office.

[Bill Blair]

I'll ask the officials for totals, so we can give you—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

You don't know these numbers, you who have been appointed the minister responsible for borders and who is responsible for this issue?

[Bill Blair]

Actually, you've asked about things that took place before I assumed these responsibilities, so I am asking for information from the officials. I now have that information in front of me.

The asylum claims by type, as totalled in 2017, was 50,864, and so far from January 1 to July 10, 2018, there has been a total of 11,408 irregular asylum claims.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

A point of order, Mr. Chair.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Did you say that there were 50,000 people in 2017?

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I have a point of order by Ms. Damoff.

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Oakville North—Burlington, ON]

The member asked how many were coming here illegally, and I'm just wondering about this. We've had a lot of discussion about illegal versus irregular. That was the question. I'm not sure that was the answer we got.

[Bill Blair]

I may then clarify this, because I wasn't picking that up from the translation. Let me be very clear then. The irregular refugee claimants—if that was in fact the question—for 2017 were 19,002, and so far in 2018 from January 1 to July 10, which precedes my appointment, the irregular migration has been 11,408.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Okay.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Excellent.

Mr. Minister, that means that 30,000 people have crossed the U.S.-Canada border illegally since your government took office.

Earlier today, you stated that, during your visit to Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle, you saw an orderly process taking place.

Do you think the fact that 30,000 people have crossed the border illegally can be described as orderly?

[Bill Blair]

Thank you, Mr. Poilievre.

What I was referring to was the processing of irregular refugee claimants, asylum seekers who have entered the country. I had the opportunity at Lacolle to witness a very professional and seamless process conducted by the RCMP, CBSA, and IRCC, where all of those agencies were working well and collaboratively together. I saw an excellent effort by the RCMP, for example, to conduct investigations to ensure that there is no criminality or risk to the security of Canada. They were doing an excellent job, and then there was a very orderly transition of claimants into the hands of CBSA and then the IRCC. That's what I was referring to.