Evidence of meeting #119 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was safe.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
You mentioned Toronto. There have been numbers bandied about that around 45% of people in the housing in Toronto are refugees, but Toronto doesn't track whether it's an asylum seeker, newcomer, or refugee. How could you possibly know that it was 45%?
3:50 p.m.
Founding Director, Matthew House, Toronto
There is some challenge. I'm not with the City of Toronto—
3:50 p.m.
Founding Director, Matthew House, Toronto
—so you'll have to speak with them. They're a sanctuary city, so in terms of the way they track people, it's a bit difficult.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Pam Damoff Liberal Oakville North—Burlington, ON
They have a “don't ask, don't tell” policy, do they not?
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
Founding Director, Matthew House, Toronto
—sure—is that things go through ebbs and flows, and I feel they're getting better.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I, too, want to welcome all of our witnesses here today, and I am very glad that you've had the opportunity to bring your experiences to us. We've been very astute on our side here, talking about the tracking. My colleague, Ms. Rempel, was talking about that earlier, that we are very compassionate about making sure that there are opportunities for refugees in Canada.
I, too, was on that travelling committee in Africa in early June with several of my colleagues on the committee from both sides of the House, and that was a very good opportunity to see how our system works.
I know that all we're saying is that we just want to see a plan, a costed plan from the government on how the process is going to work. I think Ms. Damoff just made the point that they don't know where they are. You don't rely on the housing people in Toronto to find out where these people are. You do it through the refugee claimant system that comes into Canada, and then you keep track of the people as to where they are, so that they can go through the proper channels that we have in the system to become legal refugees in this country after they've crossed. There is no doubt about that.
I just want to say that anyone who doubts the compassion of anyone here needs to talk to me about it because I have refugees in my own family who have established here in Canada and have gone on to become great citizens, so I have no qualms about speaking out. Some of you talked about the quality of the individuals who are coming into the country. That's not the big issue. We just need to know what the plan is and where the government is at.
We've had testimony today from two ministers so far and a parliamentary secretary, and we're about to have testimony from another one, who have not even given us the same kind of definitive plan that we were able to get from the minister in Ontario. She knew how many dollars they were asking for and what the breakdown was. We haven't even been able to get that out of the federal government.
That's part of why we asked for this committee meeting, and I appreciate the opportunity to be here in the summer to do this.
One of the things we learned when we were in Uganda is that there are 1.4 million refugees in Uganda alone, out of 64 million refugees in the world. We are looking at almost twice the Canadian population, so this isn't about a resettlement process. A lot of those people don't want to leave their home countries. Most of them don't want to leave their home countries, but they've been forced to, as we've heard as well. I put that out there.
Part of our role in that process was to look at the visa application centres and their function. Whether they are student, worker, or visitor visas, there is a process that people go through there as well before they come to Canada. That's just one more benchmark, but that's through the legal process.
What we're looking at is having a study here that will deal with some of the situations that we're faced with on a day-to-day basis.
I appreciate the comments by Mr. Reichhold on how the system works for the corporate sponsorships, the private ones you were talking about, and also the grassroots groups, because I also know people who have taken it upon themselves in some of my own local communities—church groups, community groups, and towns in fact—to integrate refugees. I've been there with them when they have got off the plane to take them to their local communities and integrate them with work, getting the kids into school, and those sorts of things.
We've seen situations where there are problems in Quebec with day care in a number of those areas, and with getting them into.... There are time frames that we need to be dealing with.
Just in closing I want to say that I believe we need some kind of a process, and the visa application process is one. That's through normal channels, though, so we need to find a way for the governments to make it compassionate for those who are refugees who come into our country, and I don't think that the process we're going through now is the only answer for being compassionate. It's not compassionate to put them into areas where women and children are going to be housed for only a very short time, or to leave them out. First of all, they're in the cold in the winters. I think we need to be compassionate in those areas.
That's why I am asking for a report by this committee to Parliament so that the government can respond.
My colleague ran out of time on that, so I would just like to ask you the same question—
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
Sorry.
It's now 4 o'clock so I don't believe we have time for another witness. We will take a brief moment to suspend, and then we will reconvene the second hour in just a few moments.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
I'm calling the meeting back to order. This is the continuation of our third meeting for the study of the impact of irregular crossing of Canada's southern border.
Thank you, Ministers, for being with us today.
Thank you again,Minister Blair. It's a great baptism by fire for you as the new minister.
Thank you again, Minister Hussen. This is one of several appearances you have had before our committee on this topic as well as others, so we thank you again for joining us.
We're going to begin with your remarks. You have seven minutes.
4:05 p.m.
York South—Weston Ontario
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen LiberalMinister of Immigration
Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
It is always a pleasure to appear at this committee with my parliamentary colleagues.
As you know, our government remains firmly committed to abiding by Canada's international obligations, honouring our humanitarian commitments and upholding our laws regarding asylum claims, while at the same time, protecting the safety and security of Canadians.
Mr. Chair, our government has a clear plan in place that guides all our actions on irregular migration. Our six-pillar plan includes operational preparedness, border integrity, international obligations, co-operation with provinces and municipalities, outreach, and international engagement.
Our first pillar is to ensure that we are prepared. Predicting asylum and migration patterns is difficult, which is why we have a national operations plan in place, developed in collaboration with different government agencies, provinces, municipalities and non-profit organizations, to ensure that we can deal with any surges at any point along the border. Our professional departmental and security agencies are able to respond to various possible scenarios, wherever and whenever they occur.
The second pillar of our plan is security and border integrity. We have a clear and vigorous procedure in place to keep our border secure and Canadians safe. People who cross our borders irregularly are arrested and subject to a thorough security screening. And let me be very clear on this one: no one leaves a port of entry until that security screening is complete.
Third, Canadians expect of us that we will uphold our international obligations, which have been enshrined into our own Canadian laws since the 1970s. Canada respects its legal obligations, and people who are fleeing persecution have a right to claim asylum and a right to due process. Despite what certain colleagues continue to suggest, respecting our legal obligations to asylum claimants is not a choice; it is the law. We recognize that it is important to ensure that claims are processed quickly, so that those who are found to be in need of Canada's protection get to stay, and those who do not have a legitimate claim for Canada's protection are asked to leave and promptly removed. This is why we have invested $74 million in the Immigration and Refugee Board, which decides asylum claims. This funding will allow us to hire 249 new staff at the IRB, including 64 new decision-makers.
The fourth pillar in our plan is co-operation with provincial and municipal partners. We continue to work very closely with provinces and municipalities and all of our partners on issues such as contingency planning and housing, to ensure that an orderly process is in place for asylum claimants. For example, Quebec asked us to speed up work permits so that asylum seekers may have minimal impact on provincial social services. We listened and cut processing times for asylum seeker work permits from three months to three weeks.
Unfortunately, the new Ontario government has so far refused to play its part. We remain confident that we can still find a way to work together in upholding our laws and meeting our obligations. It's what Canadians expect of us, and I urge my colleagues in Ontario to come back to the table.
The fifth pillar of our plan is the intensive outreach campaign directed at impacted communities and populations. Irregular entry is not a shortcut or a free ticket to Canada, and we have delivered that message consistently and extensively both at home and abroad with real results. In fact, through members of Parliament and consulates and the Canadian embassy in Washington, we have engaged more than 600 key stakeholders in the past year to counter misinformation, explain how our asylum and immigration systems work, and warn of the risks associated with irregular entries.
Our sixth and final pillar is our international engagement. We have worked very closely with U.S. officials, and our government will continue to engage the U.S. government to prevent the misuse of U.S.-issued visas and to pursue the modernization of the safe third country agreement.
We also continue to work actively with key source countries and transit countries to deter illegal migration. Recently I travelled to Nigeria, where my counterparts agreed to help facilitate documents for those whose asylum claims have failed.
Mr. Chair, at this point I'd like to address our government's fiscal plan to deal with irregular migration. As you know, budget 2018 had already pledged $173.2 million to manage the increased number of people seeking asylum in Canada. These resources were taken into account to start the year. Subsequently, on June 1, the Government of Canada pledged an initial $50 million in additional funds to assist Quebec, Manitoba, and Ontario, the provinces that have borne the majority of the costs associated with housing asylum claimants. Of this amount $11 million will go directly to the City of Toronto.
As you know, the budget cycle is an open, transparent process whereby fellow parliamentarians have the opportunity to review the government's expenditures on an ongoing basis, determine how taxpayers' money is being spent, and to vote on our supplementary estimates accordingly. New resource requirements regarding irregular migration will be presented in the government's supplementary estimates.
Mr. Chair, with the additional investments in budget 2018 and the ongoing collaboration with our various partners, we've made significant progress in managing this situation effectively, and we are prepared for any potential future influxes of asylum claimants. With that said, I should note that the volume of asylum claimants crossing the border irregularly into Canada has gone down significantly. In June 2018 there were 1,263 irregular border crossings by people claiming asylum. This is the lowest monthly total recorded since June 2017. It is less than half the number of people who were intercepted in April of this year. This signals a continued decrease and is a positive development.
We recognize that movements of people are difficult to predict, but it is clear that as we implement our plan, it is having an impact. This is also why we will continue to work very closely with all of our partners, in particular the City of Toronto and the Provinces of Quebec and Manitoba, which are impacted most significantly by this issue. I already spoke about our wish to also work closely with the Province of Ontario.
Mr. Chair, we've also made significant refinements in our operations to prepare for future influxes of asylum claimants: the stand-up of a dedicated situation centre to manage issues horizontally; the development of a national operations plan to make sure we are able to respond to events quickly and efficiently; the introduction of new innovations such as mobile processing units and virtual decision-making models to ensure rapid and nimble responses to any new influxes; enhanced coordination and co-operation among all of our partners, including federal-provincial relations planning, most notably through the intergovernmental task force on irregular migration. We have fast-tracked work permit applications from all asylum claimants in order to alleviate the pressure on the social assistance budgets of provincial governments. We are working to develop a system of triage of asylum claims at the border to enhance our management abilities and also to move them to locations where they can best be housed and find temporary housing.
Mr. Chair, I want to be very clear with members of this committee and with Canadians that I'm confident we'll continue to work with all of our partners to effectively address this situation. Although it's difficult to predict future flows, as I indicated, we are working co-operatively and efficiently to deal with what is in front of us now—which is a challenge, but not a crisis—and to prepare for any future influxes.
In closing, I'd like to commend our front-line personnel at the RCMP, CBSA, as well as IRCC and the IRB, for their exemplary work. They have all performed their duties in a professional and highly effective manner to protect public safety while ensuring that we uphold our humanitarian responsibilities to treat vulnerable people with dignity and respect.
Mr. Chair, thank you once again for the opportunity for me to give this overview to members of this committee. I look forward to answering any questions that my honourable colleagues may have.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant
Thank you very much, Minister. We'll have remarks from just one minister at this session of the meeting. I also welcome the deputy and officials, as well as those from Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness who are with us, and those from the agency. Questions may end up getting directed anywhere, but we're going to begin with Mr. Anandasangaree for seven minutes.
July 24th, 2018 / 4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both ministers for being here. Of course, Mr. Blair is a fellow Scarborough MP. All five Scarborough MPs are very proud of your role here with our government.
I just want to commence, Minister, with the fact that there's been some confusion in the language with respect to the use of the word “illegal”. Can you clarify your position on this, please?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Anandasangaree. It gives me an opportunity to be clear and consistent on this.
Any individual crossing our border from the United States between ports of entry is committing an illegal act, crossing the border illegally; however, once that person claims asylum, then that charge is stayed pending the determination of his or her refugee claim. Once someone is on Canadian soil, the charge of crossing irregularly is stayed pending the determination of the asylum claim.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Can you just give us a sense of this? Throughout the day, the opposition has been asking different officials to predict the number of people who are expected here in the next few months, in the next few years, and also to budget based on this prediction. Can you tell us the practical difficulty in making such a prediction?
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Ahmed Hussen Liberal York South—Weston, ON
We are not the only country that receives asylum claimants. This is a global phenomenon. Canada is not immune to global migration patterns. We are seeing in the world now what is a record number of people on the move since the Second World War, and again, we're not immune to that. What our government is committed to doing is ensuring that we enforce Canadian law, but also meet our international obligations to continue to provide asylum to those who seek it, and doing so through an independent process that determines who requires asylum and who doesn't. Because of those trends, because of the fluctuations, not just between years, but even within a year, it's difficult to predict with any certainty how many people are going to show up at our border or claim asylum in a given year.
Having said that, we are seeing an increase in the number of people claiming asylum in many industrialized countries in the world, and that is why we've developed a national operations plan that has taken into account all of the lessons we have learned from last year to make sure that we are ready for any eventuality. As I've said, the numbers have decreased over the last number of months, and the trend is downward, but we're ready for any influxes.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Gary Anandasangaree Liberal Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON
Mr. Blair, you had a chance to visit Lacolle yesterday, and I believe you've already spoken to the ministers in Ontario, as well as Mayor Tory, I'm sure on a number of occasions, with respect to this. Can you advise us? First of all, are you satisfied with the plan we have? Second, do you believe that, going forward, there's the possibility of engaging all three levels of government toward a workable plan that will support all those who come here, as well as Canadians?