Citizenship and Immigration Committee on July 24th, 2018

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Chair, point....

Minister Blair—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Before you continue, I would just remind the whole committee that the witnesses may agree to answer a question, they may decline to answer a question, or they may refer that question to someone else who is a witness at the committee. That is long-established committee procedure.

I just remind all committee members that this is the right of everyone we invite as a witness.

Thank you.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

Minister Blair, was that an extension of an invitation? Would you extend an invitation to the American government to start a conversation on closing the loophole in the safe third country agreement?

[Bill Blair]

What I will undertake is to continue to work with Minister Goodale and Minister Hussen in conversations they have already undertaken in relationships they have already established.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

This morning, the parliamentary secretary to ESDC suggested that the “triage system” was designed to “redistribute the problem”.

How many people will be redistributed from Quebec after entering at Roxham Road to Ontario shelters in the next 18 months?

[Bill Blair]

I can tell you that my understanding of the triage system is that it's to ensure that refugee claimants during the period—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

How many people will be triaged?

[Bill Blair]

—have the opportunity to be placed in a place where they are most likely to be successful, a safe place, so that the burden that may impact on communities—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Minister Blair, how many people will be triaged?

Your parliamentary secretary also said that further installments were going to be allocated. He couldn't tell us how much or how many, because he said that Immigration was in charge there, but now you're in charge. Your counterpart sitting beside you has rightly noted that parliamentarians have the right to scrutinize expenses.

We have found out today that there are going to be future installments, but we don't know for how many people or for what purpose or under what circumstances. How many people who have crossed at Roxham Road are you planning to house in hotels over the next 18 months?

[Bill Blair]

Mr. Chair, if I may, I'd like to refer that question to the officials, who would have a far more accurate answer.

[Mike MacDonald, Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Chair, the triage concept that we're currently designing would see us triage 100% of the arrivals—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

How many?

[Mike MacDonald]

—100% of the arrivals.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

How many? Quantifiably, precisely, how many people are you planning to put in hotels after they've crossed at Roxham Road in the next 18 months?

[Mike MacDonald]

I'm sorry, I was answering the first question.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

The question was how could we know this? We need to have a plan at this point in time. You've got 800 people who are about to be moved out of shelters to parts unknown. You need to know. You have made a policy decision not to close the loophole in the safe third country agreement and we need to know if you are adequately budgeting for the integration.

The entire pillar that you've outlined here on working with the provinces talks nothing about the long-term integration costs of people who are here on humanitarian grounds. You've forgotten the opposite side of the coin; you've forgotten that it's not just about processing them at Roxham Road or taking a picture with them. You have to figure out how you're going to pay for their needs.

Minister Blair, how many people are you anticipating you will have to put in a hotel in the next 18 months?

[Bill Blair]

Mr. Hussen.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, the plan that we have in place is not a new plan. It's been in place for—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

How many people are you planning to put in a hotel, Minister?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Mr. Chair, if I may be able—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

No. I need to know this. We have gone through hours of meetings with you and I still don't understand how many people are coming through and how you're planning to pay for them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'll just remind the member that a question is normally placed through the chair, and if you'd like to do that, it would be helpful.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair, on decorum. You raised the right of the minister to answer questions or not. This is the umpteenth committee meeting that we have had. We have 800 people who are about to be evicted from a shelter or college dormitories in Ontario, and I've had three ministers plus a new minister who doesn't know what his job is, countless department officials, supplementary estimates, the budgetary process, a committee of the whole, Order Paper questions, and we still don't know how many people they are projecting to come in and how they are budgeting for these expenses. That is not compassionate, because we are in situations where, outside of the supplementary estimates process, they're having to spend money piecemeal to put people in hotels. We're not talking about how we're going to put together an integration plan for language training.

I am just, at this point in time, speaking of decorum. I cannot believe that we have ministers in front of this committee again with no numbers and projections, and they must have this to the Parliamentary Budget Officer by Thursday.

So I'll ask my question again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I am just going to say that it is not a point of order. It moved into debate. Is there a point of order over here?

[Gary Anandasangaree, Liberal, Scarborough—Rouge Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to—