Evidence of meeting #122 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was countries.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jean-Nicolas Beuze  Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Salma Zahid  Scarborough Centre, Lib.
Michael Casasola  Senior Resettlement Officer, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Matt de Vlieger  Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Glen Linder  Director General, International and Intergovernmental Relations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Mark Giralt  Director General, International Network, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Jean-Marc Gionet  Senior Director, International Network, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

4:30 p.m.

Conservative

Larry Maguire Conservative Brandon—Souris, MB

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have just one more question.

Can you give us any examples or any specific recommendations on how we could improve and enhance Canada's handling of the process of getting private sponsors for refugees?

4:30 p.m.

Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Jean-Nicolas Beuze

With regard to private sponsors, we are trying to see to what extent we can engage, for example, the disability movement or the health charities to resettle refugees through private sponsorship, not based on family links, but really on those affinities of sharing a common characteristic with the refugees, so based on the vulnerability rather than a family link. Because of the numbers that we have, we need resettlement as a survival option.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

I'm afraid I need to end it there.

Mr. Tabbara.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for again being here at our committee and really providing us with up-to-date information on migration flows.

Just for the record, I want to put out there that in August 2014 when the massacre was happening in northern Iraq, there were only three Yazidis brought in by the previous government, whereas under our government, under our leadership, there were over 1,200 Yazidi women and girls who were subject to this violence and other minorities in northern Iraq who were brought in. I just want to put that on the record.

You spoke in your testimony about solutions, and you talked about four million who were returned to their country of origin. How do you determine when a country is safe? For example, in South Sudan, the former vice-president—I believe his name is Machar—and the president, Salva Kiir, recently talked about a peace agreement, and they formed a peace agreement not too long ago. When does the UN determine that it is safe to return to that country when the country has returned to stability in all aspects of the country to ensure that citizens can be there in a safe manner?

4:30 p.m.

Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Jean-Nicolas Beuze

The return is always based on the voluntariness and the choice by the refugees themselves. What is important is that refugees are given the option and the information to assess for themselves whether it's safe to return and whether they will be able to return in a dignified manner. Here we have to draw the attention of the committee to the fact that it's not only a peace agreement that determines whether the people go back or not. It's also the resumption of basic services in the country of origin. The bombs stop, but you need also to make sure that you will have access to electricity, water, schools, health centres and, equally important, livelihood opportunities before deciding to return home. This is a choice that we give to the refugees.

When they indicate that they want to do it, we will support their return and their reintegration because our job does not finish when refugees cross back into their country of origin. It's also about the reintegration in their home.

4:30 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

You mentioned the top five countries that have the most refugees, and South Sudan was one of them. When we went to Uganda, we met with refugees just in and around Uganda, whether they were Somalian, South Sudanese, Congolese. How can Canada help when refugees want to return to their country of origin where, as with the example of South Sudan, there is a peace agreement? How can Canada help not only just in terms of funding, but also in terms of brokering a peace deal and working with the UN so that we can have a stable country where we won't see an uprising of violence and people being uprooted again to different places so that we'd basically be back to the same point where we are?

4:35 p.m.

Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Jean-Nicolas Beuze

It's actually a very important point. In addition to funding to be able to stabilize the population that returns, which goes through all the elements that I have mentioned, health, education, etc., you rightly point out the fact that we need reconciliation. We need transitional justice. We need a truth and reconciliation commission so that people start to be able to live side by side again. That's part of the work of the United Nations and the UNHCR, and also of partners like the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights and the UN Development Programme, with the support of Canada. That goes also into accountability mechanisms, justice mechanisms.

Canada is a champion for the ICC, the International Criminal Court, and that may be, depending on the timing, a measure to ensure that people return with the confidence that the atrocities of the past have been addressed and will not be repeated.

It's extremely important because when people return and are displaced for a second time outside their country of origin, as we have seen recently with the Rohingya, for example, it takes far more time for them to ever return to their country of origin because the second time they have concerns of a repeat.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

How much is the UN short of funds now with the withdrawal of funding from other nations?

4:35 p.m.

Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Jean-Nicolas Beuze

I can only speak for UNHCR. We have not been affected by the withdrawal of funding by the United States. The United States is still providing $1.4 billion to UNHCR this year.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

That ends this section of our meeting.

To put you on notice, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the committee wanted you back. We'll just put you on hold. Thank you for now. Again, thank you for the work you continue to do with UNHCR and Canada.

4:35 p.m.

Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Jean-Nicolas Beuze

Thank you very much.

4:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

We'll take a few minutes to set up our next witnesses.

4:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

I'm going to call us back to order.

For this second hour, we've invited officials from IRCC to join us, and to help us scope out our study from a high-level position.

T hank you very much for coming.

I'm going to be generous with time, making sure you have time to present.

We're going to begin with Mr. de Vlieger.

4:40 p.m.

Matt de Vlieger Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Good afternoon and thank you for having us as part of this study on migration challenges and opportunities for Canada. I appreciate your opening remarks and the sense of the scope of the study.

My name is Matt de Vlieger. I'm the Director General of Strategic Policy at Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada. I'm joined today by Glen Linder. He's the Director General of International and Intergovernmental Relations. From our international network, we have the Director General, Mark Giralt. We also have Jean-Marc Gionet, who is the Senior Director of Refugee Operations. They're both well-positioned to answer questions you might have about our international operations and resettlement.

We'll keep our remarks brief, given the scope of your study is quite broad. I understand the questions you might have might come from various angles.

I'll turn to my colleague, Glen Linder, to first address some of the global migration trends. You've heard a little bit from UNHCR on that just now. I'll spend some time at the end on the implications and the opportunities these might present for Canada.

4:40 p.m.

Glen Linder Director General, International and Intergovernmental Relations, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Thanks, Matt.

The committee will have often heard it said that migration is on the rise or that it's at an all-time high. Today I'll share some numbers and some context behind those statements.

Worldwide migration has grown by 49% since 2000. According to the UN, there are now an estimated 258 million international migrants globally, which represents approximately 3.4% of the world's population. Of these, 25.9 million, or about 10%, are refugees.

What are the drivers for so much movement? There are many, but among the most notable are the drive to seek better economic opportunities; family reunification; concerns about public security and criminality in migrants' country of birth; and to escape humanitarian crises, persecution, instability and war. All this is facilitated by lower international travel costs and easy availability of information, and sometimes misinformation, online and through social media about migration.

In terms of where international migrants are going, Europe and Asia each hosted around 31% of all international migrants in 2015, according to the UN. These regions were followed by North America, with 22% of the global migrant stock, Africa at 9%, Latin America and the Caribbean at 4%, and Oceania at 3%.

Migration is a defining feature of the world today. It's not a new trend, and it's not something that we expect will stop anytime soon. The United States has been the main country of destination for international migrants since the 1970s. In terms of the top countries of destination for 2015, the U.S. is followed by Germany, Russia, Saudi Arabia, the United Kingdom, the United Arab Emirates and then Canada, in seventh place.

Where are international migrants coming from? In 2015, the top five countries of origin worldwide were India, Mexico, Russia, China and Bangladesh.

It's worthwhile recognizing that migration between countries located in the same region is also increasing. In fact, south-south migration has now surpassed south-north migration. According to the UN, more than 50% of migrants from developing countries move to another developing country, and largely within their region. In Africa most international migration is voluntary, regular and within the continent. This is also a trend between rich countries, as about half of all immigrants to high-income countries come from other high-income countries.

The international community has recognized that increased international human migration is the new normal and has responded with the development of new tools. The United Nations is currently concluding two parallel processes to develop two global compacts: one on refugees and one on migration. Although non-binding, they represent an opportunity for the international community to put in place objectives and best practices in terms of addressing flows of refugees and migrants.

The refugee compact aims to encourage states to share responsibility for refugees more equitably and predictably, and to be better prepared to respond to refugee crises. One primary objective is to facilitate access to durable solutions, along with supporting host countries, building resilience and promoting conditions for sustainable return. It also highlights the role played by countries on the front lines, which host the majority of refugees.

The global compact for migration aims to address all other dimensions of migration, such as regular migration pathways, human rights, trafficking in persons and migrant smuggling, border management, and integration. It emphasizes the positive contributions of migrants and the benefits of comprehensive, well-managed migration systems, while also acknowledging and drawing attention to the serious challenges that irregular migration poses.

Canada is actively engaged in the development of these new tools, and has been constructively engaged in discussions on them, for the promise they hold in terms of encouraging states to take a more managed approach to migration and to take advantage of the opportunities that regular, rules-based migration can have for countries of destination.

4:45 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Matt de Vlieger

Obviously, the broader migration trends that have been highlighted by my colleague and highlighted earlier by the UNHCR have impacts for Canada. They also present opportunities. At IRCC, we are seeing higher volumes in virtually all areas that we manage.

In terms of permanent residents, those who apply to be immigrants to Canada—that includes resettled refugees who are selected to come to Canada—the government announced last year a three-year plan for immigration levels growth. The plan grows to 310,000 permanent resident admissions this year. Next year, it goes to 330,000 permanent resident admissions, and then in 2020 to 340,000.

Despite that increased growth, the applications demand outstrips the space afforded in that levels plan in virtually all categories. I'll give one example. In our express entry application management system—that's the system that manages our high-skilled economic programs—we have a pool of candidates that sits at about 90,000 today. Every two weeks, there's a round where there are invitations to apply. That's a round of about 3,000, but there are twice the number of profiles filled out every two weeks. You can see that the demand is significant for our immigration pathways.

The increased mobility that my colleague spoke about a bit earlier is also contributing to significantly higher volumes of applicants for temporary visas. These are visitors to Canada, like tourists and business travellers, but also student permits and temporary workers. This year, we expect to process about 3.4 million of these visas. This is up from 3.1 million last year, and 2.7 million the year before. By next year, we're likely to be at roughly 3.9 million applications. Again, this is not out of step with international trends, but Canada is increasingly a popular destination of choice.

Also, as this committee knows well, asylum claims have increased in recent years, some from the irregular movement, but overall as well. In 2017, there were 50,000 asylum claims made, which is the highest we've seen in about 15 years. About 60% of that was in the regular manner at regular ports of entry.

Canada, like most of the world, is seeing higher volumes from these immigration trends. One of the advantages that Canada has in the face of this is that we have—I think it's fair to say—a long history and a well-established system for managing migration. By system, what I mean is that we have a defined set of legal pathways through which applicants are assessed and enter our country.

As the committee proceeds—and it was helpful, Chair, to hear of the scope of your study—you might want to consider the extent to which having a system like this can be an opportunity for Canada, both in helping the government manage and adjust the changes for the benefit of Canada, but also internationally, as one of many examples of how other countries might want to advance their approaches.

Thank you, Chair. We welcome your questions.

4:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Rob Oliphant

Thank you.

Mr. Tabbara.

September 27th, 2018 / 4:45 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Thank you very much.

Thank you for testifying at the committee.

I have in front of me an international migration report. It talks about where migrants are going and where they've gone through many years. In 2000, there were 173 million migrants going around the world, and in 2010, there were 220 million. In 2017, we now have 258 million migrants. As you mentioned in your testimony, they're leaving for primarily economic opportunities, for family reunification. There's also war, displacement.

We did a study here on family reunification, and we've been trying to reduce the backlog that was present in certain areas. For example, for parents and grandparents, there were 167,000 backlogged and we're down to around 25,000. There are a lot of people on the move.

It's in an article too, from The Economist. I'll read a paragraph:

More broadly, because immigration boosts the diversity of skills and ideas, a 1% rise in the immigrant share of the population, low- or high-skilled, tends to raise incomes per person by 2%.

You mentioned that with the express entry there were 90,000 applications. How does that impact Canada? As I mentioned here, it raises incomes by 2% per person.

Going forward, how will that impact our society, and will it be a net benefit to us?

4:50 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Matt de Vlieger

Thank you for the question.

I'm not aware of the particular study you're citing, but certainly when we're looking at immigration and immigration levels, we look at it from various perspectives.

One of the perspectives is that it's a long-time commitment. We're looking at permanent residents, so people who will be making an impact upon entry to the country, but then for their lifetime and for generations. The outcomes of immigrants are very well researched. We look at things longitudinally. We look at entry earnings and we look at earnings over time. There are very solid outcomes that we see from recent immigrants to Canada, certainly in the economic categories, but across the categories.

When you're looking across all the categories of immigrants and talking about family reunification and also the refugee class, immigrants catch up to the Canadian average after 10 years. But if you're looking at the economic classes, they're already starting out, in terms of entry earnings, higher than the Canadian average.

One of the things you're looking at is the long-term benefits because of this group being permanent residents to Canada.

Another thing you're looking at is the second generation, and the outcomes of the second generation in terms of educational attainment, by far, outstrip the Canadian average. That's another angle you're looking at.

Those are more longer-term concerns. There are demographic aspects to growth. Immigration contributes a lot to labour force growth. I think about 75% of Canada's labour force growth is contributed by immigration, currently. That trend is likely to continue with the aging population.

Then there are shorter-term benefits. There are employers looking for high human capital talent right now, and the fact that through some of our immigration streams—like express entry, where there is a six-month processing time, which is quite competitive internationally, and actually quite quick for our department—employers can access that kind of talent and skill set quite quickly.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Could you explain the difference between express entry and the new global skills strategy?

You mentioned that express entry is a six-month process, but the global skills strategy can be up to two weeks for a highly skilled individual.

4:50 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Matt de Vlieger

Yes, the primary difference is that express entry relates to the permanent movement, so for people to become immigrants and permanent residents of Canada. There is a different kind of application process that we're looking at there versus the global skills strategy, where we're looking at temporary entry to Canada, so some of the temporary worker streams. That allows companies that are looking to scale up in Canada and bring over some high human capital talent quite quickly to bring them in, as you said, within a two-week processing standard. The big difference is temporary versus permanent.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

How competitive is Canada compared to other immigrant-receiving countries?

4:50 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Matt de Vlieger

May I ask, in which way? Do you mean processing times, outcomes?

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Marwan Tabbara Liberal Kitchener South—Hespeler, ON

Yes, processing and getting those skilled migrants coming in for high-skilled jobs and low-skilled jobs as well.

4:50 p.m.

Director General, Strategic Policy and Planning, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

Matt de Vlieger

We know that with our application volumes, which have increased in pretty much all categories, but certainly in the economic categories, that Canada is a destination of choice, certainly.

When we look at processing times we are very competitive with our comparator countries, certainly Australia, the U.K., the U.S., both on the temporary side and on the permanent side.