Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 6th, 2018

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

The motion—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You can't rule me out of order. I'm speaking to the motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

The motion was not presented in a manner that was understandable to me as the chair, and then it was changed three times.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Well, perhaps you should ask the mover to clarify it if you don't understand, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

If the mover would like to make a clear motion, I would entertain it. However, we do not have a clear motion on the floor. Just to clarify, using the words “I'd like to make a motion” does not, in fact, make a motion.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

But you can't rule something out of order just because you don't understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Actually, I can. I can rule your intervention out of order. I can.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Well, Mr. Chairman, you are out of order, and I'm saying this with all due respect to the witness. I'm not challenging the witness. I'm challenging you for taking it upon yourself to arrange for witnesses when you don't have the right to do that. The parties, the three caucuses, have the right to arrange for witnesses. If there were no witnesses, you should have called a subcommittee meeting and asked the three representatives what they intended to do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

The call of a subcommittee meeting is totally at my behest, Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

That's not true, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

It is. It is.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Well, you've chosen not to call it and to just do things on your own. Is that what you're trying to tell us? You don't have a right to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

What I am saying is that Mr. Milner is a witness selected by the committee. He was asked to come to the committee in October. We have attempted to schedule him. He is now available.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Sir, I'm not challenging the witness. I'm challenging you, that you have acted—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

I'm not sure what the challenge is, because he was submitted—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

The challenge is that you've acted improperly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Okay, the chair has been challenged.

Is that a formal challenge?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Okay. Then we need to vote to sustain the chair. It is not debatable.

All in favour of challenging the chair, please vote.

(Ruling of the chair sustained)

Thank you. I will continue.

I will give Ms. Rempel a chance to.... If you would like to put in a motion that is clear about instructing me to.... I think I got the point, but then it changed as you continued.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Chair, when the original conversation happened—and I believe it was in public, so I'm not—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Yes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Okay.

I think a lot of the motion, from my understanding, could be discussed with.... Many Canadian departmental officials have been working on that particular issue. I think having the minister appear is important. My assumption is that the chair would be arranging witnesses who were from GAC, IRCC, the minister, and perhaps even our rapporteur, Ms. Arbour. I think that was more the spirit behind it. We could easily fill two meetings or more with Canadian officials, which you had already decided, so this isn't about babysitting, as you've characterized it; it's just that we have only one witness here. We have one witness, when we could have had a panel of many other departmental officials and whatnot.

I just find that a poor allocation of time, especially—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

The departmental officials have been requested to come, and they are being scheduled.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Okay, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, Rob Oliphant]

Mr. Milner was requested to come some time ago and was able to come today. We thought, “Isn't it lucky”—he may not think so now—“and fortuitous to the committee that he is able to be here.” He is a Canadian expert on the compact, is involved in it, and has already been scheduled.

Frankly, no other witnesses had been submitted—witnesses have now been submitted and officials have been requested—and that is why we are doing this.

The reality, just to remind the committee, is that you put a deadline of December 10 for us to accomplish this task. For us to get this task done, it is my job as the chair to make sure we have four meetings on this topic. That's how we're doing it.