Evidence of meeting #158 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was process.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul MacKinnon  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
John Ossowski  President, Canada Border Services Agency
Lori MacDonald  Acting Deputy Minister, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Louis Dumas  Director General, Transformation Office, Transformation, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
André Baril  Senior Director, Refugee Affairs, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Jennifer Lutfallah  Director General, Enforcement and Intelligence Programs, Canada Border Services Agency
Christian Leuprecht  Professor, Department of Political Science, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual
Nafiya Naso  Spokesperson, Canadian Yazidi Association
Jean-Nicolas Beuze  Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
Justin Mohammed  Human Rights Law and Policy Campaigner, Amnesty International Canada
Marilynn Rubayika  Public Interest Articling Fellow, Amnesty International Canada
Lobat Sadrehashemi  President and Laywer, Canadian Association of Refugee Lawyers

6:25 p.m.

Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Jean-Nicolas Beuze

When asylum seekers aren't recognized as refugees or people in need of Canada's international protection, they have access to certain appeal mechanisms. They could include an appeal to the Federal Court of Canada further to a pre-removal risk assessment or an appeal to the Refugee Appeal Division after having appeared before the Refugee Protection Division. After going through all those appeal channels, claimants must return to their country of origin.

Their removal can be accompanied by measures to help them reintegrate into their country and host community. In many cases, people leave their home countries because of poverty and a lack of job opportunities. Measures to help with the transition can be put in place and have been in the past.

It's important now, in my view, to send the message that people should be careful and not rely on the asylum system to immigrate to Canada. If they wish to immigrate here, they have access to options other than asylum. They shouldn't spend their life savings and put their safety at risk by taking unsafe vessels or asking smugglers to take their families. It's important to let them know that, upon arriving in Canada, they won't automatically be allowed to stay. It's important to let them know that they can't abuse the asylum system, as is often talked about in the public space.

It also sends the message that Canada remains a country that welcomes those who are entitled to asylum and in need of protection. Perhaps they should have access to similar, but different, processes given the need to find quicker and more cost-effective ways of doing the work. Nevertheless, all those processes have the same objective in the end, protecting those who cannot return to their home countries because they would be at risk of torture and persecution.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Beuze.

I have just two minutes left, and I'm going to give them to my fellow member Mr. DeCourcey, who has a few questions.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

I wonder, Mr. Leuprecht and Monsieur Beuze, if you could clarify the following for me, because I've heard Ms. Rempel mention the need for Canada's leadership on global asylum reform. I've heard her talk about the need for Canada to be at the table, talking and engaging with the world about global safe third country agreements.

Are these not the very issues that Canada is at the table, leading when it comes to the global compact on safe, orderly and regular migration? Yes or no?

6:30 p.m.

Professor, Department of Political Science, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual

Dr. Christian Leuprecht

We have a situation where people are dispensing with the formalities of national immigration policies on a large scale across countries—

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

Mr. Leuprecht, I'm sorry, but are these conversations taking place when countries get together at the global compact for safe, orderly and regular migration?

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Give him a chance to answer the question.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

They form part of the document. Is that not part of Canada's leadership on these very issues?

May 7th, 2019 / 6:30 p.m.

Professor, Department of Political Science, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual

Dr. Christian Leuprecht

We're talking exclusively here about domestic issues. Nothing in this bill suggests to me that Canada's taking cues or coordinating with other countries.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

No, I'm asking you a question about an earlier comment on the need for Canada's to lead on global asylum reform and safe third country agreements around the world.

Monsieur Beuze, does that form part of the conversation of the global compact?

6:30 p.m.

Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Jean-Nicolas Beuze

The short and long answer is yes.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

Would it be fair to say then that the fearmongering on that issue that we saw from the Conservative leader before Christmas completely contradicts what his critic is saying right now on an area where Canada needs to take leadership? You don't need to answer that.

Monsieur Beuze, are you confident with the procedural guarantees that are in place—

6:30 p.m.

Conservative

David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON

Why would you raise it then? Just for fun?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

—to deal with the mechanisms in division 16?

6:30 p.m.

Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Jean-Nicolas Beuze

I am, and I hope that at some point the measures which have been described by Mr. Blair will be enacted in a law.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

Is there anything the government can do to strengthen those guarantees and ensure fairness in the asylum system—which we know is important—to allow Canada to continue to be a place of refuge?

6:30 p.m.

Representative in Canada, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees

Jean-Nicolas Beuze

Uphold the decision—which has been commented on here—of having a hearing, a right to counsel, the possibility of appeal to the procedures, and the possibility of having those procedures fully recognized in a piece of legislation.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

Ms. Naso, thank you for being here today and for your leadership with the Yazidi community across the country with Operation Ezra in Winnipeg.

It's been an important part of this government's leadership on resettlement, and I'm sure we will have more conversations ahead about opportunities to resettle more Yazidis here in Canada.

Would you agree that it's important that Canadians understand the distinction between a fair and strong asylum system and a resettlement system, as two distinct processes and systems, and that there are important areas that Canadians need to be clear on to ensure that they accept our continued global leadership in resettlement?

6:30 p.m.

Spokesperson, Canadian Yazidi Association

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Acting Chair Liberal Nick Whalen

Mr. Leuprecht, maybe I'll just use the chair's prerogative for the last 10 seconds here. Did you want to add something to the last point that Mr. DeCourcey made?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

I want to apologize, Mr. Leuprecht. I was just hoping for a quick answer before we ran out of time.

If you're going to allow him, Chair, I'll allow for it.

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Acting Chair Liberal Nick Whalen

How long is your answer?

6:30 p.m.

Professor, Department of Political Science, Royal Military College of Canada, As an Individual

Dr. Christian Leuprecht

It's 10 seconds.

The reason I wanted to weigh in is that too much of the conversation somehow focuses on protecting whoever gets here. We should be putting the emphasis on protecting the most vulnerable, as opposed to people who are deliberately dispensing with the formalities of national immigration policies.

Nothing in this bill does away with the fact this is the large-scale problem that we need to address the broader issue. Rather than putting all of this emphasis on protecting whoever ends up in Canada, let's put our efforts into people, such as my colleagues—

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

Mr. Leuprecht, these would be the very conversations that take place in these international fora. Would you not agree?

6:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Acting Chair Liberal Nick Whalen

Mr. DeCourcey, I think we're done here now. Thank you very much.

We'll take a quick break and then invite the next and final panel up. Thank you.

6:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Acting Chair Liberal Nick Whalen

We're now calling the fourth panel of the 158th meeting of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration to order.

With us for this hour from Amnesty International Canada are Justin Mohammed and Marilynn Rubayika, and appearing for the Canadian Association of Refugee Lawyers, we have Lobat Sadrehashemi.

Each of your organizations will have an opportunity to give a seven-minute presentation, followed now by one round of seven-minute questions, I believe.

We'll open with Amnesty International, please.