Citizenship and Immigration Committee on May 7th, 2019

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Minister—

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—our asylum system.

[Pierre Paul-Hus, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

All we keep hearing about is more and more investments. Isn't there anything else you can do to fix the problems?

Coordination and direction are lacking, but there has to be a way to change that. More than a billion dollars has been invested with nothing to show for it. That's not coming from us; it's coming from the Auditor General.

I'd like to use the minute I have left to talk about security.

The Auditor General noted that the Canada Border Services Agency had a problem conducting criminality and identity checks in some cases. At least 400 people who crossed into Canada did not undergo a proper security check. Can you tell us about that?

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Nick Whalen]

In 45 seconds, please.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Let me say absolutely emphatically that no individuals with any serious criminality or security concerns were admitted into Canada. There have been a very small number whose biometrics were not properly enrolled in databases.

John, quickly, do you want to comment on any aspect of the work CBSA is doing on that^

[John Ossowski]

I think it's important not to conflate a biometrics enrolment in the GCMS with the proper security check. You can still do a check with the U.S. and Canadian criminal databases with biographic information. We do that. We've gone through the files as a manual review and assured ourselves that this in fact was done and that the officers dealt with the criminality as they would with anybody else who presents themselves who has any criminal issue.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Nick Whalen]

Thank you, Mr. Ossowski.

Mr. Ayoub, you may go ahead.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister.

I'd like to begin by apologizing to the officials who are with you for some of the comments that have been made. I would call them appalling. Minister, you came here today to speak with us, and I have no doubt that you are working with your colleagues to make the system better countrywide.

You mentioned some of the things you've achieved, but I'd like you to repeat the numbers because I don't think they sank in. You said the number of people crossing the border irregularly had dropped by 47%. In the summer of 2017, Quebec was very busy dealing with those individuals.

What impact will the bill have? What makes you confident that it will change things for the better?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Certainly, I think when the immediate influx occurred in Quebec, there was an excellent response at that time, but it was a reactive response, with the large surge of people who presented themselves at the border, particularly at the end of Roxham Road in Quebec. The impact was also in other places, such as Emerson, Manitoba, and on the Pacific Highway in B.C. But our officials, I think, responded quite appropriately and have dedicated the resources and put in very effective processes, which I've reviewed very extensively. I'm quite reassured by the excellent level of collaboration and the thoughtful way they have been managing this increase, which is being experienced around the world, but is being exceptionally well managed, in my opinion, by our officials at the border. Due to the fruits of their labour, we've seen a significant reduction in those who are presenting themselves irregularly at our border.

I'll give you another example. We heard earlier about B.C. In Manitoba, in 2017, nearly 1,300 people crossed irregularly from the United States. Last year that number was reduced to approximately 500. In the first three months of this year that number is down to single digits. It's a direct result of some really good work that's been done by our officials in collaboration with their partners in the United States and in other parts of the world that has affected this change. But at the same time, we recognize that timely determinations by IRB required significant new investments, and so we've been working with the new director of IRB to make sure that he has additional personnel to make those timely determinations.

The level of collaboration and innovation between our officials through this new management board of our senior officials who oversee these processes have resulted in a number of innovations. For example, there's an integrated claims assessment project now under way, which is bringing much greater efficiency to those processes. For those people who would seek asylum in Canada and are perhaps not in need of our protection, I think that as there is greater awareness of the improved efficiencies and the more timely determination, and the certainty that you will be subject to removal if you are determined not to be at risk, that is helping us reduce the number of people who would present themselves irregularly.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

If you happen to have Quebec's figures on irregular border crossing claims, I would really like to have them.

The other part of my question has to do with the fair handling of claims by people who cross the border irregularly and those who enter the country unlawfully. How can we be sure that the system will process all of these people's claims fairly and impartially with respect for their human rights?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Mr. Ayoub, in the early part of this discussion about the large number of people who were presenting themselves and crossing our borders irregularly seeking asylum, there were a lot of suggestions that this was a security or safety risk. I can assure you that it is not. Our officials go to exceptional lengths to ensure that there is no threat of criminality or a threat to national security.

There was also an issue of fairness. I think many Canadians were concerned that people who were presenting themselves irregularly perhaps were receiving some kind of an unfair advantage. That's one of the reasons we have worked very hard and brought bring forward measures in this budget bill to reduce any incentive or advantage those who might choose to cross irregularly would have over those who choose to cross at a regular point of entry. It's simply an acknowledgement and a respect for Canadians' sense of fairness. The system needs to be fair, it needs to be efficient, and it will always be compassionate.

[The Acting Chair, Liberal, Nick Whalen]

With the last four minutes, I believe we can move now to a combination of Ms. Rempel sharing her time with Mr. Maguire.

Ms. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

What percentage of the people who have entered Canada illegally from upstate New York since January 2017 and subsequently claimed asylum would division 16 of the BIA apply to?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

For those who had made a previous claim in the United States, my understanding is that the number is somewhere between 3,000 and 3,500.

Is that correct, Paul?

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Was it less than 10%, like 5% or 6%?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

That's for that particular provision for those who previously had made a claim.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you. I just wanted to put that on the record.

You didn't quite answer your colleague's question. I think it was something to the effect of your having done any analysis to see if this would survive a Supreme Court challenge or a court challenge. You said you believe that....

Was there an analysis completed, and would you table that with the committee for review?

[Paul MacKinnon]

We've certainly worked with the Department of Justice on that analysis, and we have the charter analysis. Whether or not, Mr. Chair, Justice is okay with our tabling that before the committee.... We'll certainly follow up on this question.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I would say it's a little material to this. If that analysis shows that it's not likely to survive a court challenge, which I don't think it will, is it your intention to use the notwithstanding clause to uphold it?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I remain confident that it will, in fact, meet that challenge. That's the advice we've received from Justice, but again, I wouldn't presume to speak for them. If we have an opportunity to table that opinion with the committee, we'll certainly endeavour to do so.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Do you expect court challenges of this?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

In my experience, almost every area of law is subject to litigation. That's the nature of any new law, so it's certainly possible that someone may seek—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

That's something else.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

—to challenge it, but I remain confident in its constitutionality.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Have you budgeted anything for the fact that this most definitely will be litigated? How much is that anticipated to cost? Again, are you anticipating using the notwithstanding clause?