Citizenship and Immigration Committee on July 18th, 2016

[Prof. Audrey Macklin]

Internally displaced persons are highly vulnerable. They meet the refugee definition in all sorts of ways, except they haven't crossed an international boundary. However, as I mentioned in my presentation, there's a big problem with accessing them. You can't access them without the consent of the sovereign government of the country they are residing in. That government may be actively engaged in persecuting them or be unable to control the territory and whatever non-state actors are persecuting them.

There are huge logistical problems that I think may be solvable on an ad hoc basis. To the extent that the source country stream has worked in the past, it is because in individual countries or in individual situations you can still find a way, but it is an institutional obstacle that you don't have when you're dealing with people outside their country of origin.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

What are the legal barriers to assisting internally displaced persons from within the borders of an unsupportive sovereign nation or within a failed or failing nation state?

[Prof. Audrey Macklin]

You can't get in there.

The legal obstacle is that no other country can go there and do anything without the consent of the government that's there, and if that government withholds consent, then you don't have a legal entitlement to be there.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Do you think that the current internationally accepted legal definition of “refugee” is out of date, given the evolving nature of conflict and humanitarian displacement?

[Prof. Audrey Macklin]

If you altered the refugee definition to remove the requirement that somebody be outside their country of origin, the practical problems of accessing them and trying to deliver protection would remain. I don't think that it's so much a question of whether you want to change the refugee definition. It's more a question of how you want to access internally displaced people and provide them with assistance and protection that is very difficult to provide.

Certainly many countries do permit various UN agencies to go in there and try to provide assistance to IDPs, but it's partial, it's incomplete, and it's highly contingent. It can change on a dime.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you.

My next question is for Mr. Mark.

You mentioned the number of spots you have for this year. What number of people did you bring in in 2014 and what number did you bring in in 2015?

[Dr. Martin Mark]

Our number was much smaller. Definitely we preferred the submissions last year due to this special possibility.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Do you have the exact number for 2014?

[Dr. Martin Mark]

I'm sorry. I was not prepared for that.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Is is possible that the committee can get that?

[Dr. Martin Mark]

Yes, definitely.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

We would like to have more statistics on the number of people you brought in 2014 as well as in 2015.

[Dr. Martin Mark]

Definitely. I can email it. That is not a problem.

There was definitely an increase. Over the last five years we increased the numbers every year, but it was more significant last year when we had this unlimited opportunity.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

You mentioned the processing time of three to five years for the people you are dealing with. Do you have any pending applications for the people you have been dealing with? How long do those applications stay with you?

[Dr. Martin Mark]

Last month we had an arrival, an Afghan refugee, and he was in the process for six years. We still have applications that were submitted before 2011. We have different caseloads, which unfortunately—

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

For those applications you have had since 2011, what was the delay? Was the delay in security checks?

[Dr. Martin Mark]

It's not only one case. We can say that the Canadian embassy even posts on its website that the average processing time is three to five years. If you go to the High Commission of Canada in Islamabad or in Pretoria, you will see that the average processing time is extremely long, unfortunately.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

How much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have two minutes.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

In regard to your plans for the proposal, do you have enough money? Do you have a plan for all the expenses to be covered for the privately sponsored refugees you are proposing to bring in?

[Dr. Martin Mark]

I was thinking, on Mr. Fragiskatos' question also, that it would be irresponsible to have all the details of the planning before we get the legal framework. We are keen and anxious for that. Yes, we have a possibility, an opportunity, and a plan. However, we need the legal context to go ahead, because we cannot just go to a country to start resettling people who don't qualify according to Canadian immigration law. That would be human trafficking.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Do you have a plan to financially support all of this?

[Dr. Martin Mark]

We have a plan for fundraising and we have a plan to request funds from the government, because I think if you want something fast, the private sector is not able to react fast in a large manner. As I mentioned, two weeks ago our first Yazidi refugee arrived, so it shows that we have cases in place. We are happy to increase them. We have a fund, Project Abraham, that is just for fundraising for Yazidis. It is fundraising tens of thousands of dollars. Money is coming in. However, if we want it on a large scale, I think it should be jointly government resources and the private sector, and I have no doubt that we can manage it.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

You have not actually put the financial backing in your proposal.

[Dr. Martin Mark]

I think it would be irresponsible to put something in place if legally we don't have the go-ahead. It's illegal at this point. Immigration Canada would send me back the file saying “Martin, what happened? Are you drunk or what? Why are you submitting a Yazidi case from northern Iraq? It's against the law.”

If it would be legal, we would mobilize sponsors, fundraisers, everybody, and I'm sure, because I saw the commitment from the government side also to do—