Citizenship and Immigration Committee on July 20th, 2016

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

To you, Mr. Nissan, Mr. Clayton, as well as Ms. Schmidt-Teigen, we've heard several witnesses, different witness groups, everything from groups working with LGBTI refugees to Yazidi refugees themselves, saying that the UN selection process for vulnerable minorities is flawed. I really don't think that this is a partisan issue by any stance, it's just becoming a fact that's coming out of testimony. Some of the areas of flaws that have been mentioned are very lengthy delays. One Yazidi man had an appointment from one of the refugees in the camps for 2022. He talked about discrimination based on religion executed by the UN officers.

These are difficult things for us to talk about, we don't want to talk about these things, but I'm wondering if these are things that you can validate, in your experience as organizations on the ground. And should we be, as a government, in talking to the United Nations, which does excellent work, but if they're asking us to accelerate the asylum claims of Yazidi applications.... We had somebody from the UN in the room here earlier this week, and they weren't able to tell us that they've taken any measures to rectify some of these issues. If we're relying on their lists, and they're not giving us those names, there's a problem.

I'm wondering if you can validate that testimony, or if you can expand on it, or, if it's not factually correct, let us know. I think this is important to talk about and not turn a blind eye to as a result of this committee.

So, Ms. Schmidt-Teigen, I know you're on the ground there, would you like to begin?

[Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen]

Sure. I can say that much of what you've heard is true. Just today I got two reports that I found disturbing.

One was the report of some of our workers visiting a refugee who had an appointment for 2021, and was told maybe not even 2021, it might be 2022. I can confirm that is definitely true, and it makes no sense to me why the UNHCR cannot be providing refugees.... That was just for refugee status, that wasn't even for immigration, that was just for status as a refugee to be able to move forward in the immigration process.

The other report that I received today was from Greece. One of our Yazidi beneficiaries commented to one of our workers that it was really hard for them because they were still living in a Muslim context, and the Muslim NGO workers who were serving them were, after hours, overheard calling them all sorts of names.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I'm going to interrupt you there.

This is a difficult topic to discuss, and I think it got glossed over in the last committee meeting. We had Yazidis say that they had experienced discrimination by Muslim UNHCR workers. I know this is something that is very difficult for us to talk about. Are you validating that particular comment with this particular anecdote?

[Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen]

I am, yes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Nissan, did you want to comment, with the time I have remaining?

[Aneki Nissan]

Yes, I could speak to my own personal family. I had an uncle who was in Syria when Khabur fell. He remained there to help the internally displaced people to evacuate the region and try to find accommodation and shelter in Hassakeh. His daughter is now living in Sweden, his son is in Germany, and he is in Canada now, finally, after two years of paperwork. He, his wife, and his youngest daughter are now in Hamilton. That was also through private sponsorship, so they're living with his brother.

It is a long and lengthy process, absolutely, and they are at the point of desperation where they're willing to tear apart their entire family just for the safety and security of western nations. We're seeing lots of families in a similar state where you have some in Europe, some in Australia, some in Canada, some in the U.S., but they don't care. As long as they're alive, they'll figure out a way to reunify later. Right now, getting out of there is their only mindset.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Clayton, I'll give you the remaining 30 seconds. Based on your experience, should we be encouraging the United Nations to perhaps examine or provide additional training to people who are making these lists, or encouraging them to be more nimble and make changes if we are actually going to prioritize the most vulnerable, those facing genocide, as has been requested in their report recommendations?

[John Clayton]

Yes, I think this whole issue of who does this is a big issue because of the prevailing biases and the perceptions of people. Yes, we want to believe that these humanitarian principles and people's integrity can override these things, but there are realities. I think this is a matter, if this is a priority, whereby people need to be sent in who are aware of these sensitivities and have been vetted properly to be able to address these things.

I don't know if the mechanisms exist to do this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Ms. Kwan, you have seven minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much to all the witnesses.

I'd like to go over a couple of suggestions that were presented. There seems to be a common theme from many of the witnesses, and that is on the question of bringing back the source country class for dealing with the crisis. Those who are internally displaced would have an avenue to make an application.

I'd just like to get some quick comments from our witnesses with respect to that suggestion.

Perhaps we can start with Mr. Nissan, and then we'll go around the table.

[Aneki Nissan]

We need to find a solution—and this is the bottom line here—and the source country class is an interesting idea. It needs to come back. Hope is diminishing on a daily basis. The longer we wait and the longer we delay these things, more and more lives are being lost, more and more people's families are being torn apart. Bringing back a solution like that, eliminating the cap on the number of refugees that we can bring in, these will all help us in the long term. Right now it's a moment of despair. Figure out a way to get them out of there, and then we can deal with the processes afterwards, if you will.

We were somehow able to bring in 15,000 to 20,000 in a matter of months. We put them in a particular area while we vetted and we did all that we had to do. I don't see a reason that we can't do the exact same thing for the Yazidis or for the Assyrian communities as well. I believe this is something we need to do.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Before we go to others for comment about that, I think you were in the room earlier when I also read off a number of suggestions and recommendations for consideration. Included in that was for immediate action to be taken, and particularly for the victims of genocide, and women who've been raped, for example, who have been widowed, for orphaned children, and so on, and targeting, I think it was, 3,000 to 4,000 victims immediately as a special measure to bring them to Canada. This would be in conjunction with that, and then, of course, the longer term.... With many of the different groups, it's been identified that what is lacking is the source country class application format. Those who are internally displaced have no means of being able to make an application, so it's in that context that I ask that question as well.

Mr. Clayton.

[John Clayton]

Just briefly, I would agree with the need for something immediately to be done. I also think that this quandary of language around “refugee” and “internally displaced”, and those games with words.... Words are important, but exceptions also need to be made when words like “genocide” start being used. That's what I have to say.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Ms. Schmidt-Teigen.

[Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen]

I'm sorry, everything has been in French for the last four minutes or so, so I don't understand anything that's been said.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Okay. I'll just repeat my question, then. I was asking about immediate action, and it's been suggested to the committee that we take immediate action, particularly to target the victims of the genocide—women who've been raped, women who are widowed, orphaned children—and to take a special measure to immediately expedite bringing the survivors of the genocide here to Canada, with the range of 3,000 to 4,000 to begin with. Then, of course, ultimately what's coming forward in a lot of the committee's testimony from different witnesses is that we need a classification. The source country classification needs to be reinstated, perhaps in an adjusted manner, so that we can address the issue of those who are internally displaced, so that there's an avenue in which they can seek refuge elsewhere.

I'd just like to get your comment with respect to the action that needs to be taken and your thoughts around the source country classification.

[Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen]

I definitely agree that immediate action does need to be taken. The source country thing is hard because we need some sort of system to be able to work with the IDPs who do not have refugee status. How do we get them out to a place where they can get refugee status so that they can start the immigration process? That's a huge bottleneck for these people, especially the vulnerable who do not have men in their household who will do this stuff. Many of the women who have escaped from ISIS or been released somehow have come back, and they don't necessarily have a husband anymore. Their husband might still be in captivity, their children might still be in captivity, or they might just have their children with them, so they have no one to actually go through that process with them. Many of these families from the Sinjar area are uneducated so they don't necessarily even know how to start moving forward with that process. There's a lot of advocacy that needs to happen in-country to start helping them to be able to gain refuge in another country.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

In light of that challenge, are there folks on the ground, organizations and international human rights groups, perhaps, who could be utilized in order to provide assistance to help get those applications, if there was a source country class stream?

[Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen]

I think there are definitely organizations. I think that Yazda, Free Yezidi, and different organizations could come alongside to help with that process. One of the big things that I know a lot of organizations here face is just being understaffed and underfunded. If there's a way to help staff that kind of program I think you would find organizations that would be willing to come alongside and help the Government of Canada in that process.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is it possible for us, the committee, to receive that information if there are organizations that you think could be of assistance? I extend this to all the witnesses to provide that information to the committee.

[Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen]

I can definitely do some research on the ground here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Mr. Sarai, you have seven minutes, please.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you to all of you from Iraq, to those who have been in Sudan and Eritrea.

This question is to Mr. Marshall. I first want to point out that I have the highest regard for the United Nations, and specifically their human rights and refugee wing, in acknowledging that the Yazidi atrocity is in fact a genocide. They did it very diligently and appropriately and with the right research and analysis.

But we've heard this, not just now, but also before. What I found troubling is that the process to even be interviewed and be called a UNHCR refugee would take you until 2021 or 2022 for your first interview. Although you're not the expert in that area, perhaps, maybe you can comment. I find appalling that somebody would have to wait in a UNHCR camp, after having received refuge, for six or seven years to be able to be considered. Can you comment on that?

[David Marshall]

No. I don't work for UNHCR. I work for the human rights office. I also don't cover Iraq so I can't speak to the issue, I'm afraid.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Okay. Well, thank you.

I will ask you maybe, Ms. Schmidt-Teigen, if you can elaborate. Have you asked why the delay in timelines has happened in these UNHCR camps?