Evidence of meeting #27 for Citizenship and Immigration in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vulnerable.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Aneki Nissan  President, Centre for Canadian-Assyrian Relations
David Marshall  Team Leader, Assessment Mission to South Sudan, Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights
John Clayton  Director of Programs and Projects, Samaritan's Purse Canada
Raija-Liisa Schmidt-Teigen  General Director of a Community Center, Samaritan's Purse Northern Iraq
David Manicom  Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration
Heather Jeffrey  Director General, International Humanitarian Assistance, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development

1:45 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

Yes, certainly.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Thank you.

I'm stunned with such a great answer, short and succinct.

Right now we have the Yazidi genocide crisis. To me the issue is that genocide is happening, and there's urgent action needed by the international community of which Canada is part. That genocide is taking place, and it doesn't really matter whether it is because of religious beliefs, political beliefs, or for any other reason. The fact is that there has been identified genocide and that there are therefore victims of genocide. We need to take action.

It was suggested to us that we could actually move into immediate action with a special measure to bring in the victims. These are, for example, victims of rape, people who have been widowed, orphans, etc. Can we in Canada bring in a special measure to do that, in addition to our immigration levels, which are targeted on humanitarian and compassionate grounds at 2,800 to 3,600 people? Is that something we can act on now?

1:45 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

There are the authorities in the act to develop a public policy on that basis. The operationalization, the processes to identify where resettlement is the best option for individuals, and putting in place mechanisms in the region to ensure the safety and security of everyone involved are the issues which the department and the government are looking at, at this time.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Okay.

1:45 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

The legal mechanism already exists.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

Right, and there are folks who suggest that.... Actually, they have a database. They have collected names of individuals for whom, if there's a mechanism to go in and to bring them out, it can happen. It can happen right now.

Is it feasible for the government to work in conjunction with them to make that happen?

1:45 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

That's what we're examining. It's not quite that simple. The mechanisms to do so right now are quite complex. We're working within a sovereign state. There are a number of security considerations in the area, and the fine-tuning of what is the best policy and how it's designed, if the government wishes to proceed with that among its many other humanitarian priorities, are the sorts of things that we are in the process of analyzing, as a government, as a department.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

You have 15 seconds.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

I get it. It's never that easy. Nothing is ever that easy, but it is doable.

1:45 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

I don't know if it's doable. It depends on the situation on the ground at any given time, so that's what we're analyzing. I just don't want you to say that I said it's doable.

1:45 p.m.

NDP

Jenny Kwan NDP Vancouver East, BC

What is the timeline in your analysis?

1:45 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

I don't know. I have no knowledge of what the situation in Erbil will be like a month from now.

1:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj

Thank you.

Ms. Zahid, you have seven minutes.

July 20th, 2016 / 1:45 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Thank you, Chair.

Before I ask the formal question, I would just like to say a few words. Over the last three days, we have heard very powerful and moving testimonies from vulnerable and internally displaced groups around the world. These were very difficult and heart-breaking stories that call for action. Our committee will be reflecting on these stories as we prepare our report for the fall, which I hope will include comprehensive recommendations for a framework to help these communities.

We need to recognize the urgent crisis faced by the vulnerable communities and persons today. This urgency is why the committee unanimously decided to hold these meetings in the summer. Canada has been held up as a world leader for our response to the Syrian refugees. I thank you all for the work that you have done on that, and I hope Canada will continue to be a leader in responding to the concerns we have heard this week from a lot of different groups.

As mentioned by my colleague, during the last three days we have heard from several witnesses about restoring the source country program. Many people have said that this would be a good mechanism to allow Canada to assist vulnerable and internally displaced persons. But we also heard that the program as previously constituted was in need of reform to be more effective in achieving these goals.

Further to my colleague's question, would you expand on how you see the source country program in the context of assisting these populations? What modifications would you recommend to make it more effective in this regard?

1:50 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

These are difficult and quite complex questions of policy design. When the source country program was designed, it was designed very much to solve the sorts of problems that have been before the committee over the last few weeks. The source country program had a listed number of countries in the regulations so that each time one wished to either remove or add a country to the list, it was controversial, cumbersome, and led to a whole lot of discussion.

Countries didn't like to be on the list because it implied that they were failed states, so it caused those sorts of diplomatic issues. Adding a country to a list, therefore, involved inter-departmental consultations and consultations with the international community and so forth. Then you had situations where it became operationally extremely difficult to work in a given country that was a source country, yet we still got applications flowing in and so forth which, in practical terms, were very difficult to manage.

For those reasons it was felt that the program was not efficient and not necessarily meeting the greatest needs, so it was in effect replaced with the public policy provision, which has a great deal of flexibility and scope. Whether that's the best mechanism or whether there is something in between the two, which could have the sort of profile of the source country program, yet retain the flexibility of the public policy instruments, is certainly open to the imagination. I would say that the public policy provisions, on their surface and as they have been used, are able to respond to relatively small and medium-sized situations in a wide variety of countries. Each of them is operationally complicated to establish. From a resource point of view, you probably end up, sadly, helping fewer people than you would have under our other programs. There are always those very challenging and sometimes disconcerting trade-offs that you have to make in policy design.

Those would be my general comments, but certainly it would be a fruitful topic for analysis. The challenge continues to be getting the design right. I think the design we have is pretty good, but it could possibly be improved.

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Another suggestion to provide a mechanism for Canada to assist the vulnerable and the internally displaced communities was the minister's discretion to provide consideration on humanitarian and the compassionate grounds under section 25 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act.

Do you feel this would be an effective way to assist these people? Are there any challenges that you would like to identify?

1:50 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

In my mind the public policy provisions effectively do that. I don't see that there's additional legislative or regulatory authority required to meet some of these objectives.

Perhaps I misunderstood your question, Madam.

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

Do you see any challenges, or do you think this will be an effective way to assist?

1:50 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

What would be an effective way?

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

The use of section 25 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act to assist vulnerable internally displaced communities if you had the minister's discretion?

1:50 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

In my view that's what the current public policy does.

The challenge isn't in identifying needy populations. The challenge is making the very hard and heartbreaking decision as to which 0.1% of extremely vulnerable people globally Canada will assist. That's the heartbreaking challenge, whether they are refugees or internally displaced persons.

I believe the public policy provision we have in place provides the needed ministerial authority to take such actions. The challenges are often diplomacy, logistics, finances, security, and the challenging question of establishing priorities amongst so much need.

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Salma Zahid Liberal Scarborough Centre, ON

I'll share the rest of my time with Mr. Virani.

1:50 p.m.

Liberal

Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

Mr. Manicom, thank you for being here and clarifying some of the policies that were in place during the previous government.

I wanted to ask you to clarify if the tracking at that point was unknown to the department. Was the tracking that was asked to be done used to decide who the department should be accepting after the UNHCR made its referrals, so that you had an ability to accept ethnic and religious minorities?

1:55 p.m.

Associate Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic and Program Policy, Department of Citizenship and Immigration

David Manicom

That's a difficult question to answer.

The areas of focus were set out to guide our relationship with UNHCR, the United Nations refugee agency, as to which sorts of cases amongst the many Syrians in need of resettlement Canada would most like to receive.

1:55 p.m.

Liberal

Arif Virani Liberal Parkdale—High Park, ON

The majority of the refugees in the region are Muslim and Sunni Muslim. Is that correct?