Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2016

[Lisa Bamford De Gante]

It's not so much the application fees. I'm not referring to the application fees as much as to the minimum income level cut-off because obviously, the cost of supporting three family members in Vancouver or in Toronto is very different from the cost of supporting three family members in New Brunswick, where the cost of an average house is under $200,000.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You told us about welcoming Syrian refugees in your community.

In your opinion, should the family reunification system work in the same way as other types of reception?

[Lisa Bamford De Gante]

Obviously, when people are coming in as refugees, their concerns about family reunification are very pressing, and they are concerned about the well-being of their families. Every day I have three or four different people coming to my office asking what can happen with their family. They are still in limbo, between countries. Obviously, that's pressing.

I think the same applies to the new Atlantic Canada immigration pilot. As we look at increased levels, we need to look at the fact that we are not individuals; we are parts of families and we function as families in our economy and in our society. We need to define those families and, if they are eligible to be sponsored, expedite that process for them.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Uppal, you told us about the tension and stress you are experiencing from being separated from your spouse and your parents.

What are all the effects of a separation that has lasted for such a long time?

[Puneet Uppal]

Recently, for my parents, it wasn't too bad, because they visited me in the summertime, using the super visa program, but for my spouse, it's really stressful, because she has no idea. Every time we look at the processing time of a year and a half, we literally scare ourselves off. I'm working, and it has been affecting my work. We have those phone conversations, “Hey, when am I going to see you?” We have no idea, because every time we call the immigration department, they just tell us it takes about a year and a half.

Recently, I found out that my file has been sitting in Delhi for seven months untouched. I had to do an MP inquiry to get them to take a look at my file, and my file was just opened two weeks ago in New Delhi. In the past seven months, the file was untouched, and my wife.... We couldn't really apply for a visitor visa, because the immigration department won't give a visa to spouses who are still under process.

My only recommendation about spouses is if they can't control the processing time, at least give them the visitor visa. As I said, she is an engineer, like me, and if she gets here—

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Let me ask you the question the other way around.

What will the benefits be once you are all together in Canada?

[Puneet Uppal]

The first the thing is that I want to see my wife. That's the basic thing, to see my wife, and to make an economic contribution. I live in Vancouver. It's quite expensive to live here. She'll be coming here and contributing to the economy, right? She'll be a taxpayer like me.

When it comes to my parents, my dad works in India, so he'll have a pension when he comes here. He is getting close to retirement in India, so when he comes here, he'll have a pension from India. It would be good to be here as a family.

I only get three weeks of vacation. I went to the extra effort of taking three months off, and that was time off without pay. You can imagine making mortgage payments in Vancouver. It's really hard. That's why I suggest, especially for my wife, getting that time down, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Brigitte Sansoucy, NDP, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

You said you have to visit your country of origin often. Do you also need to support your family there, or are your family members financially self-sufficient?

[Puneet Uppal]

No, my parents are independent, and my wife is independent too. She works in India. I send her some money, but she is financially independent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Ms. Sahota, for seven minutes, please.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Thank you. It's nice to be visiting this committee today. There are a lot of interesting conversations about things that I deal with a lot in my riding.

From the last panel, we heard quite a lot about how having family with you supports the mental and economic stability of the overall family, and I can attest to that myself, especially the cultural continuity and cohesion we heard of. Confidence is something I can definitely attest to. When my grandmother immigrated to Canada to support my parents, my confidence level definitely shot up. It helps to have someone around to care for you when your parents are working multiple jobs and can't spend that extra time with you. It helps to have a loved one there who will teach you language and culture and things that keep you grounded. Perhaps a lot of kids without that family support would drift and maybe get into trouble without having adult supervision around. It's vital.

As an adult now, for my son.... I was born here, but my in-laws and my parents both immigrated in the 1970s and without them, I wouldn't be able to do this job because I need that family support structure at home. My being a member of Parliament, I wouldn't have been able to do it if I did not have my extended family around me to support my son.

It is really important in order to further the economy. Being an MP from Brampton and having grown up there, I can definitely attest to the fact that immigrants support the economy there. They are some of the highest homebuyers and without them, I don't think we would have some of the bustling suburbs around the Toronto area that we currently have today.

We heard from the witness from Fredericton that the Atlantic provinces are desperate for immigration. They have an aging population. They need economic immigrants.

Mr. Uppal is an economic immigrant and he made a statement a little earlier saying that he may need to leave and go back to be with his spouse. Is that what we really want to do? At one moment, we say that we want to bring in economic immigrants and the next moment we say, as I heard from Mr. Bissett, that well, with economic immigrants, along comes a spouse, along come parents, but what's wrong with that? Mr. Uppal says his wife is also an engineer. She'll be bringing benefits to our country as well. She is one of those highly skilled people that we desperately need. Along the way, they may have children and they may need the support of their grandparents and their parents around.

I can't imagine how we solve this by cutting off immigration, how we solve the problem that Canada faces, which is an aging population and the need for immigration in order to thrive. We need to continue immigration and it's just about how we do it in the right way and how we support the immigrants who come here, so they can be successful and not end up being a burden on many other services, as long as they have those supports in place.

Mr. Bissett, what do you think that right balance is? You are saying it's an economic burden, but somewhere along the line you said there was a time when we couldn't sponsor parents until they were over 65. That seems counterintuitive to me. We heard from the previous panel that if they're able to sponsor their parents quicker, at an age when they are perhaps in their forties or fifties, they can still contribute to the economy in the sense of working. I would still say that even after 65, there is a big contribution to the social fabric of Canada.

Where do you think we need to make the cuts and why?

[James Bissett]

I wasn't suggesting cuts in any one category. I was just saying that we are bringing in 260,000 or 280,000 immigrants every year, and probably almost the same number of temporary workers. They all have to be processed and that has put a tremendous burden on the bureaucracy. That's part of the problem.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have immigration. Going back to what you asked about the balance.... Right up until the nineties, the balance was roughly 60% selected immigrants, because they had the skills training, the professions, and the jobs that we needed here for the labour force, and roughly 40% humanitarian cases, refugees or family. I don't know what the balance is now, but I think the economic class, too, is....

You have to be very careful about that. All governments like to let everybody know that we are bringing in the people with the skills and the training that we need, but if you analyze the annual movement pretty carefully, you'll find that only about 18% to 20% of the immigrants coming here are selected because they have skills training and experience that we need. The rest of the movement consists of family, refugees, and provincially sponsored immigrants, who don't have to meet the federal criteria of the points system. If you analyze that carefully, as I have done, you get 17% or 18% who are selected because they have skills and training.

A lot of the provincial nominees are recruited by agents overseas, and they are low-skilled workers. They don't have to meet the education or even the language requirements. That's a big bulk of the immigrants we are bringing in.

I am a grandfather. I have 11 grandchildren. I have a son in Baghdad. I have a son in Luxembourg. They have children. I'm not around to look after them, but with the ones I have here, I know what the burden can be on grandfathers and grandmothers. I am even looking after their dogs when they are away, so I'm very sympathetic about that.

What I am saying, apart from any personal views I might have, is that the issue with the family class is money.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 20 seconds, please.

[James Bissett]

If you want to bring in your parents and grandparents—

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Do you have any numbers? I know you gave some numbers on aging seniors, but for people who come under skilled categories in the express entry system, for refugees, or for those who have come at a younger age as a spouse or whatever, do you have any numbers on those who are a drain on our society versus those who are working in factories or in different service sectors?

[James Bissett]

I wouldn't say they're necessarily a drain—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you, Ms. Sahota.

Perhaps, Mr. Bissett, when it comes to numbers, you could pass that on, because we're over time at this point.

[James Bissett]

Yes. It's all in the study I will table for you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

We'll move to Mr. Saroya.

[James Bissett]

I just have one comment on that.

One study shows that family members over the age of 60 or 65 in Canada are making, roughly, below $15,000 a year.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Mr. Saroya, you have five minutes, please.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you to New Brunswick, Vancouver, and James here for their knowledge and perspectives on how we shorten the lines.

To Puneet in Vancouver, what are your thoughts, on the parent application, regarding the income requirement for the previous three years? Are you okay with that?

[Puneet Uppal]

As I said, income has never been a problem for me, because I make good money as an engineer. I forget what the requirement was, but when I applied, I was well above it. Maybe it was $35,000 or something. Income is not a problem for me, because I am in one of the higher income brackets.

[Bob Saroya, Conservative, Markham—Unionville, ON]

We are looking at the overall situation. In your case, you're good.

Lisa, is there anything in New Brunswick? When people apply to sponsor parents and grandparents, one of the requirements to process the application is a three-year income requirement, how much money they are making, and whether they are qualified.