Citizenship and Immigration Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2016

[Dr. Michael Blume]

I can look, but it was some weeks ago that there were the first contacts with the German embassy.

There was a contact. There is an ongoing dialogue, actually, with colleagues from the Canadian government.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That would be great. If you can look up the date, I'd be interested in knowing it.

I think in your last meeting you mentioned that a team of three people helped to select the refugees. Can you tell us who was on that three-person team?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

There was Professor Kizilhan, one colleague on our team from the visa department, and the team leader. When I was team leader, it was me. There were the three of us.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That included, then, the local people on the ground who helped you in selecting people.

[Dr. Michael Blume]

No, the decision team was only German, was only from our state. That was part of the regulation. It was so that no one would be allowed to interfere in the decision process. It was not only because of the fear of corruption, but you can also imagine, for example, that if you had taken local people into this process, someone could threaten them.

We have made it pretty clear that this three-person team that makes the decisions is only composed of members of our German team, our Baden-Württemberg team.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

In terms of location, in terms of your advice to Canada on where we should go to try to provide support to the refugees, I think in your last meeting you suggested that we maybe look at a multi-pronged approach. How would you prioritize location? Would it be Iraq, Turkey, Syria, Greece? How would you prioritize where we should go in, as our first phase, to try to provide support?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

I think it would depend on the diplomatic relationships.

For example, I think some states such as Jordan might be very ready to work with Canada. Other states might be more reluctant, or they might have things they expect from you in return. My idea when I started this program—and now you are planning, thankfully—was that I would go for a mixed approach. I would say, let's talk with the Kurdish regional government maybe for emergency cases and let's look at the other states such as Greece, Turkey, and Jordan for other things.

I'm not quite sure. It seems that your program is concentrated only on Yazidis. Our program was focused on vulnerable women and children. We were able to take some Christians and Muslims too. It was important for us. If you imagine talking in the region, it's maybe not helpful to say you are only helping people from one community. For us, it was good to say that we wanted to help the people who most needed the help. Of course, most of them are Yazidis, but it's not exclusive.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is it feasible?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

That might be a point. For example, even some Turkish politicians would probably ask, why are you taking only Yazidi refugees?

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Is it feasible for us to get into northern Iraq?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

Yes, absolutely. It's possible. I would encourage going into dialogue with the Kurdish regional government. It's possible to travel there. Some German politicians have been there too. As our prime minister offered, we could even go together, with a German and a Canadian team. That would be possible too.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

We've often been told that security is the reason that even officials can't get in, and even if they can get in, they can't really do any processing, and so on, and there are lots of risks.

In your experience, it is entirely possible. Can you share that information at a later time with our committee on how we might actually go about doing that?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

Of course, there will always be people who say that it's not possible or it's dangerous. I agree that there are risks, but the other side is that we decided to take them. All of our team volunteered, actually.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Do you have any numbers by way of Yazidis who are victims of the genocide that you can share with us in terms of refugees so that we can perhaps consider how many we should try to target?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

Yes, there are numbers. There are even accounts by the Kurdish regional government, because when people come from the Kurd-Dagh regions, they are questioned by the peshmerga and by Asayish. The Kurdish regional government clearly has lists and numbers of people and can even tell you when they escaped from Daesh, and—

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I see.

[Dr. Michael Blume]

—we have the numbers too.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Can you share that information with the committee as well?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

Yes, but I would advise that you maybe to talk with the Kurdish government, because if they give us information, maybe it would not be that diplomatic if we just forwarded it. Maybe it's a better way if Canada approaches them. Of course we can help.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much.

You mentioned the issue of corruption. Can you give us some examples? We've heard from other witnesses about concerns, for example, with the UNHCR, that even within that organization there are potential issues of corruption. Can you elaborate on that?

[Dr. Michael Blume]

On the one side there are cases, for example when you need permissions, that some people might want to take money for. Many Kurdish officials haven't had a salary for months, so for many of them it's difficult when suddenly people are coming from all over the world and they have money. There were a few cases—

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

You have 20 seconds, please.

[Dr. Michael Blume]

—but we could handle them.

On the other side, of course, there are rumours, and people are jealous. Then they might say that someone got admission because they paid for it, so we were very strict on these things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Ms. Zahid, you have seven minutes.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Blume, for appearing again today and providing your important testimony.

You mentioned that you worked with Air Bridge Iraq and the International Organization for Migration. How did you source these groups and how did you evaluate which ones to work with?