Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 12th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you for that information.

Mr. Ehsassi.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I wanted to remind my colleagues here, and in particular Ms. Rempel, that the purpose of today's hearing in having the officials here was to discuss Bill C-6. Further to that the officials have kindly agreed and undertaken to provide us with the information that you have requested. I don't quite understand why you think it would be necessary for these officials to once again appear before this committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Ms. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

On that point, the email that Ms. Zahid read out talks about the centralization of access for members of Parliament into one number. What's not clear from that is whether or not staff from the ministerial inquiries division have the authority to look at things like reconsiderations of rulings on citizenship decisions, as well as, for example, dealing with overseas embassies. These are scopes of responsibility that the staff that man the current central line at the central processing unit do not have.

What's not clear in that email is whether or not as members of Parliament we will still have access to the level of service and the scope of responsibility of the staff that the ministerial inquiries division provides.

The way I read that email and many of my colleagues did, your caucus included, it looks as if we would have to phone a number and have a staff member act as a middleman. That's not the best process in my opinion.

I would like more information on why this decision was made. That's simple. Also, as my comments to the officials were, my recommendation would be rather than going to a middleman that we have better training for new caucus members, so perhaps if the ministerial inquiries division is getting a bunch of requests that are out of scope or something like that, that some training is provided.

Your question about why this is happening now, the changes to Bill C-6 will impact your offices. You are going to have a lot of questions from constituents on how these new rulings might apply retroactively or if they apply to cases already in there. We're going to have a lot of requests.

I do think that again this is not a gotcha situation. Just to have the officials sit here, and whoever the officials may deem to find appropriate to do that, to answer questions, I think a lot of our colleagues across party lines would be very interested in that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Chairman, a response to a question that was asked from the government as to why we would want the officials to come back. The answer is because we will have questions. They may provide a written response, but we will have questions.

For example, my constituency offices have called embassies on specific questions from our constituents, and the embassies have told us to call this general number. This is something new. We've always had assistance from the embassies. We've never had the embassies...and to be fair to the embassies not all are saying that. Perhaps they haven't heard of this ruling yet, but some embassies are saying they will not speak to us. We will have to call this general number.

Members of Parliament are asked a lot to assist constituents on immigration and other issues. This just makes our job much more difficult and it certainly fits into questions that will arise as a result of Bill C-6.

The reason the motion has been made, we may, and I expect we will, have questions of the staff on whatever responses they're giving to this ruling.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Mrs. Zahid.

[Salma Zahid, Liberal, Scarborough Centre, ON]

I think that's a matter of process. Right now we are discussing Bill C-6 and we should go ahead with it. That is a matter of discussing a process and the officials will provide a response to that. Maybe we should go to a vote on this motion.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Mr. Ehsassi.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

First of all, I wanted to re-emphasize what Mrs. Zahid said.

Secondly, I certainly sympathize fully that there are certain aspects of this that may very well be unclear for Ms. Rempel. However, I wanted to emphasize once again that the officials have kindly agreed to be responsive to the questions that you have put to them and to provide us with that further information.

That having been said, perhaps it would be a whole lot more proper if we awaited the response that the officials will provide us and then revisit this issue at that particular time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Ms. Rempel.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

I acknowledge my colleague's comments. However, my sense is that this decision has been made without any consultation across party lines.

Mr. Chair, given my colleague's government's commitment to greater consultation, I would say that the opportunity to ask officials how the process works will provide clarity for our colleagues. Again, the email that came out last week I think provided even less clarity and having them here prior to the end of reading this bill on how these changes will impact the significant changes that are being made to the Citizenship Act I think would be highly beneficial.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Ms. Kwan.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I guess we'll go to a vote on this and in anticipation of what the outcome might be and should the motion be defeated, I would suggest this: that perhaps, Mr. Chair, you on behalf of this committee can extend a request to the minister that a briefing be held by the officials for all MPs and their offices to engage in a discussion to see what changes are being proposed, so that we can all have this information and ask the questions accordingly. This will not necessarily come out of the time of the committee. I understand there are concerns with respect to that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you.

I'd like to call the vote.

I'll just read through the motion to make sure that we have the wording correct, Mr. Tilson. It's that staff be invited to return before the end of consideration on Bill C-6 to provide a briefing on the process for accessing the ministerial inquiries division.

[An hon. member]

I'd like a recorded vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

(Motion negatived: nays 5; yeas 4)

[The Chair, Liberal, Borys Wrzesnewskyj]

Thank you. The motion is defeated.

Ms. Kwan, you have seven minutes.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I would like to first ask the officials this question. How many people failed the language proficiency test and had to go to the second round and then to the third round before the citizenship court judge?

[Catrina Tapley]

There are two parts.

The process that I described was the process around the test for knowledge, not the language test itself. On that, 87% of people pass on the first try. When they take the knowledge test—the 20 questions that are there—they're required to pass 15 of those 20 questions, and 87% of the people do that. When you allow for a second chance to take the test, the pass rate moves to slightly above 90%. Then following that, they can have a hearing before the public service decision-maker. I'm not sure of what percentage pass after that.

[Mary-Ann Hubers]

It's a very low percentage. It's around 2% for language and knowledge—one or the other.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

That is to say, 2% of the population fail the test?

[Mary-Ann Hubers]

Two per cent of applicants are refused on language or knowledge.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Thank you.

Can the officials advise what the time delay is for people to go through the different stages and to ultimately get in front of a citizenship court judge?

[Mary-Ann Hubers]

It depends on volumes, obviously.

We have a service standard in place for applications received on or after April 1, 2015, that 80% of those will be processed within 12 months. We are achieving that target.

The first step is that it goes to a case processing centre in Sydney. From there, it goes to the local office closest to the individual's home. At that point, the applicant is called to write their test, and they have an interview with them. If they fail the test, then they would go to a second test, and then finally to a hearing with a public servant.