Citizenship and Immigration Committee on April 26th, 2021

[Andrew Carvajal]

Advance notice would have made a big difference. If we had known and our clients had known they had to write English tests in advance and they were able to get....This is the first time we've seen non-skilled people able to apply for permanent residence. Unfortunately, it's impossible for them to go and write an English test in three weeks. The people who are going to end up applying are the ones who already applied under another program, or who were already going to apply under another program.

Notice would have been crucial, telling us a bit about what is going to be included in the application, so people are not hoarding resources like medical tests and things like that.

Also, maybe do what you're suggesting, which is, for pilots such as for these new programs, make it so that if they've already applied under another program, they're not eligible unless they withdraw their application. That way we don't find the 40,000 spots for international graduates or the 30,000 spots for essential workers taken by people who already applied under something else but are taking chances to see whether this happens faster. I have many clients who are going to be doing that.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

I have a huge worry for people who withdraw from the other program, because they think they've been.... In the case of caregivers, by the way, the government has not prioritized their processing. That is the truth of the matter, and people have been waiting desperately to reunite with their loved ones. Now, they may actually be out of luck at both ends if they withdraw from the other program.

There has to be some sort of process to ensure these people don't end up getting caught out in that way. From that perspective, if people did withdraw and tried to get into the new one, and they couldn't get into the new one, what sort of recourse do you think the government should provide them?

[Andrew Carvajal]

It would be a difficult one, but mainly it would be restricting these programs from people who might have been able to apply under others, or maybe just doing quotas, as you were mentioning, by occupation. That way, at least we could protect different occupations, because I'm afraid that all those essential workers—many of whom are very important, like agricultural workers, truckers and people who work at convenience stores or grocery stores—are going to have their spots taken by the ones who are probably professional and had a chance to apply under other programs.

That is one way the inventory could be managed in a way that would allow opportunities for those who didn't have them before.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

The Canadian Horticultural Council has reported difficulties for temporary foreign workers crossing the border in order to get a hold of Switch Health, the company contracted by the federal government to administer the day 10 COVID tests after arrival. This forces them to quarantine for an additional two weeks and prevents them from working.

From the clients you represent, Andrew, have you—

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

Sorry for interrupting, Ms. Kwan, but your time is up.

We will now move to Mr. Seeback.

Mr. Seeback, you will have four minutes for your round of questioning. We have to end this panel at 4:30.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I have so many questions but so little time.

Terry, you talked about the trusted employer vetting, and that's been brought up by a number of other people. Tell me how that looks, because from my experience, being a member of Parliament dealing with many immigration cases, this is of critical importance to many employers.

How would you actually envision this being run? Andrew, maybe you could also comment.

[Terry Shaw]

Again, without getting into superspecific detail, what I can suggest is that all our members deal with banks, and once they go through the initial credit application process, they don't redo it every time they want to access their line of credit.

CBSA and other federal government-run programs have trusted-trader type programs whereby, once you go through the initial vetting process, you don't redo it every time you cross the border. There are annual or regular audits. If something changes with your business, you have to make a new submission or alter your information, but you shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel every time you make an application.

[Andrew Carvajal]

The way I see it, employers are already put through the wringer when they're doing an LMIA application—in terms of proving they have the money to pay for the person, that they're legitimate and that they're operating—and they have to do recruitment, too, right?

If they have to go through this again, especially if it is done in a way whereby specific industries are allowed to have this simplified procedure, we already have guarantees that the employer is legitimate. We know those industries have a lack of people. There could even be a built-in audit process like there is for the global talent stream, where employers have gone through this and have been vetted, so it's much easier for them to just apply again.

That's the way I see it. Again, it can be specific to certain industries, like the way the global talent stream works.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Right.

Terry, I see you've put up your hand. Do you want to jump back in?

[Terry Shaw]

Thank you. I have one last quick point.

Again, there are other independent agencies that you can utilize to help determine best practice: employer of choice, your Trucking HR Canada; trusted trader programs through the federal government; a certificate of recognition; and safety standards. All of those speak to corporate culture and can help inform a trusted employer style of program.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I have very little time and you might have commented on this, but people are talking about the challenges with the one year and the renewal.

If you were to build this program, how long would you want this LMIA to last before you had to reapply, and if it's the same person you want to keep, what should that look like?

[Terry Shaw]

Andrew.

[Andrew Carvajal]

Sure.

They give three years to international graduates after they finish their studies, which would then open a work permit for any employer. Why not give three years to people who have an employer and have demonstrated a need in Canada?

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Marcel, I see you have your hand up as well.

[Marcel Groleau]

My comment is along the same lines as the previous comments, the permit should be for at least two years. There could also be a simplified renewal process when the same worker returns to work for the same company. If we want to keep track of the number of workers, a simplified procedure and a renewal every three years would be a solution.

[Kyle Seeback, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I would add, and a path to PR, which I think all of us can agree on—a simplified path.

That's great. I think I'm probably out of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Salma Zahid]

You are at 10 seconds.

We will now proceed to Mr. Schiefke.

Mr. Schiefke, you will have four minutes for your round of questioning. You can please proceed.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I add my thanks to the witnesses for being here today and for lending their thoughts to a very important study.

I'll begin my questioning with Mr. Shaw. Truckers make our country run, and I think the pandemic has truly shown the importance of truckers in our country, and how important they are.

You were talking about the composition structure and the reporting requirements for the process that's currently in place, as well as some complexity issues.

We really want to hear some concrete examples of how we can improve the system, and I think your feedback would be valuable. I wonder if, in one minute or less, you have any concrete examples on how we can improve the composition, the structure and the reporting requirements, and perhaps reduce some of the complexity.

[Terry Shaw]

I'll commit to providing a written submission on that, because I can't get into it in one minute or less. I would also defer to my colleagues, Scott and Greg.

Just to answer your question, it would be some kind of help desk or user desk, something like that to help people through the process. People such as Mr. Carvajal are welcome and a good resource, but it shouldn't take involving a lawyer to get through the process. That's where I'll leave it in the time I have.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Okay. Thank you for submitting the document you're going to submit with all your ideas included in it. It will be very helpful.

Mr. Groleau, thank you for telling us about the situation for Quebec farmers, especially given that the unemployment rate is 6% in that province and the growth rate is 8% in the agriculture sector. The problem needs to be corrected.

First, you talked about one way to improve the process, which is to extend the validity of the work permit to two years.

Why are you proposing two years instead of three or five years? Is the number fixed or are you just looking to increase the number of years?

[Marcel Groleau]

What I'd like to see is an increase in the number of years. In other words, the LMIAs and work permits should be valid for two, three or five years.

There should be a way to streamline the process used to control the movement of temporary foreign workers, especially in the agricultural sector. These are seasonal workers, who come here for six to eight months. I understand that the government wants to have some control over their movements, but the process currently in place is far too cumbersome. It can and should be simplified.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

I find the idea very interesting.

I have another question for you. You mentioned that the working group felt that 24 questions could easily be removed from the LMIA application form to simplify it. You shared this with the Government of Quebec. Have you done the same for the Government of Canada?

[Marcel Groleau]

Yes. We shared it with them, too. The working group was mandated to simplify the form.

[Peter Schiefke, Liberal, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you very much.

My last—

[Marcel Groleau]

I apologize for taking your time, but this is probably the last time I'll be able to speak. So I'd just like to mention to the committee that foreign workers aren't goods that we import. They're humans. We are welcoming humans into our country, and they should be treated as such.